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  #1  
Old 10-19-2006, 01:25 PM
polycarp polycarp is offline
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Default E200 connector pinout

Hi, folks!

Does anybody know e200 connector pinout? I am going to spend sometime with a multimeter and an oscilloscope to get an idea about the pins assignement, but if someone has done it already, it will save my time. (Yes, I did search the forum and the net, did not find anything).

I guess finding ground, +5V, USB Tx/Rx, and audio outputs is straighforward. But I want to figure out how the control buttons are wired and whether there is a simlple way to make a remote control for my car. I do not like messing with small buttons on the player while driving in heavy traffic and would like to make a indash remote to control the player.

Thanks in advance for any info.
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  #2  
Old 10-19-2006, 02:27 PM
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piren piren is offline
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i guess the simplest way is to buy the Dock (which also comes with a remote control) and either find a way to use in in your car, or figure out how it works.
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  #3  
Old 10-19-2006, 04:42 PM
enki3600 enki3600 is offline
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I plan on finding out this info too... by myself if nobody else can answer my previous question about the memory chips.

I've got an e270, not sure if it changes from model to model (it shouldn't!), but I can see that there are only SIX pins of the 30 on the unit side connector that are populated. A pair of pins on either end, and a pair in the middle.

My guess from "good" board layout practices and knowing that it charges from this connector is that 1 pair is for power and 1 pair is for ground. The last pair being most likely the differential pair for the data bus. I haven't bugged it out yet, but from what I can recall of the USB pinout, I'm going to guess that (as looking at the connector with the screen up) the left pair is ground, the right pair is +5V and the middle pair is the differential data pair.

The plans I've got for this when I finally acquire all the parts is to remove that damned proprietary connector and replace it with a standard mini-B receptacle. (Then it's just a matter of signal integrity over the differential pair... it'll be tough to find 30ga twisted shielded wire )
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Old 10-19-2006, 08:15 PM
polycarp polycarp is offline
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2enki3600

If you are talking about the unit side connector on the USB cable then it definitely uses just few pins. USB has 4 wires (5V, gnd, rx, tx), 2 pins can be used as a shield ground connectors. I am going to open up the player and look how many pins are connected on the PCB. There should be at least one audio output on the connector, otherwise it will require plugging an additional wire into the headphones jack when the player is docked. Audio signal can be recognized by a oscilloscope easily and I have a horde of them at work.

2piren
Buying a dock is a viable option, but there is no fun in it. I am DIY person, and find reverse engineering insteresting.
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  #5  
Old 10-20-2006, 06:14 AM
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piren piren is offline
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well, than have fun going at it :-)

Either way, without someone posting the control commands (and i doubt anyone did) even after you'll find the pins controlling the player, you'll have to figure out how to use those pins.

Which means either blasting it with all sorts of info till something happens, or figuring out the Firmware (people are already working on it, not much progress made) or the simplest way of all - Get the damn dock (then use a sniffer to intercept the commands).

So, getting a Dock seems rather reasonable :-)
(and also gets ya a nifty remote for your car :-) )
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  #6  
Old 10-20-2006, 06:23 PM
enki3600 enki3600 is offline
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piren: I believe he is just looking for a basic low-level RCA left/right audio out on the pins. My Rio Karma had that.

polycarp: yep, I realize the USB standard is only 4 defined pinouts. My comment meant that "yes, I presume 2 pins are power and 2 pins are ground". "Good" PCB layout practices (and wiring schemes of any kind, really) is that GND should be the largest trace/wire gauge, particularly in high current or high speed devices. It makes sure that the ground loop is the path of least resistance and minimizes ground bounce. And considering the size of the connector pins, I'm guessing that a single one may not be able to handle the current (up to 500mA, but realistically probably 100-200mA).

I would expect that if there were low level outputs on that connector (and there is plenty of space for it), that there would be an additional 4 pins populated. Left and Right positive and ground. Sure you could just tie those in to the regular ol' ground pins, but as with before, higher frequencies (and audio at 20KHz is really not at all "high") can become distorted if they don't have their own true reference.

I've not seen this "dock" available for these units, but from the evidence in front of me, I'd have to think that the dock acts like a "host PC" and just grabs, decodes, outputs the MP3 from there... making it basically a standalone MP3 decoder. That would just be stupid! (as far as design costs)
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  #7  
Old 06-20-2007, 06:49 PM
aacarioca aacarioca is offline
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I'm really interested in all that work you guys are doing! I've recently bought myself a car charger for my Sansa which has the right connector in it (no usb). I was wondering whether I would be able to do the same stuff with it as you are trying to do with the Igriffin. As it is now, I have to connect two cables to the Sansa when I am in my car. It would be much better if I could use only one.
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  #8  
Old 07-03-2007, 08:38 AM
jac0b jac0b is offline
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I am getting rid of my sansa stuff because I moved to a different player but if you want my breakout connector just PM me and I will mail it to you.

Update:
I have already given away the breakout connector.
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  #9  
Old 11-10-2007, 11:27 AM
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cyberspyder cyberspyder is offline
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So which ones are for audio again? I wish to make a LOD for my amp
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AUDIO GEAR: Cowon D2/D2+ (RockBoxed & <3 it), Sansa e270 (RockBoxed & <3 it), UE Super.Fi 3 (Westone cables), UE Super.Fi 5 Pro (Westone cables), beyerdynamic DT770 Pros/80 (recabled), Westone UM3X, AKG k81DJ (recabled)

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  #10  
Old 11-24-2007, 12:06 AM
Bob ofQF Bob ofQF is offline
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I just recieved one of the Mouser electronics connectors.

I also have a Griffin dock.

I _thought_ it would be a simple job, but there are some resisters and capacitors on the Griffin doc, so I must decipher what those do, before continuing.

*sigh*

I have a Sandisk car-cord, to provide the power, and I will be using it's plug to decipher the requisite power pins.

I'll match the pins used on the power dongle's plug. It was not fully populated with pins, which is why I ordered the mouser plug.

I had wanted to add a simple 3.5mm stereo plug to the car-cord power adapter, so that one-plug, and I was hooked up in the car.

But, there's only 2 capacitors and 2 resistors to figure out. Alas, they are surface-mount, and I cannot decipher their values yet.

It seems I must figure out what the tiny numbers mean-- they seem to be part numbers, instead of farad and ohm values. *sigh*

Anyone have experience with surface-mount devices?
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  #11  
Old 11-24-2007, 04:05 PM
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Slaughter Slaughter is offline
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A $5 multimeter will tell you their values.
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  #12  
Old 11-27-2007, 09:10 PM
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shoefly2k shoefly2k is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob ofQF View Post

It seems I must figure out what the tiny numbers mean-- they seem to be part numbers, instead of farad and ohm values. *sigh*

Anyone have experience with surface-mount devices?
The first two or 3 digits are the value and the last is the multiplier.
A 243 mark on a resistor would be 24K ohms(24,000) or 4751 = 4.75K ohms.

Capacitors would take a google search to find out, it is a code associated with a value. Most of the time there is nothing on them. Good luck.

Food for thought;
The sansa, ipod and Zen Vision family all use the same connector. The DD1 series, if you can find the 70 degree angle connector get it. That works great for a dock, I was able to sample some from a salesman. Also Digikey now sells that part.
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  #13  
Old 12-02-2007, 05:56 PM
pettitpeon pettitpeon is offline
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Hey guys!! This might help or encourage someone to to finally cipher the pinout. Apparently the true line out exists. check out this link http://www.imjosh.com/?p=616
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  #14  
Old 12-05-2007, 03:06 AM
Bob ofQF Bob ofQF is offline
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Been too busy to follow up on this project.

Thanks, shoefly2k for the tips on how to read the resistors. A digital multimeter may or may not work, depending on how it's terminated, but I may try that for the resistors.

As for the caps, they are large enough to read, but the brand is unknown, and therefore the cross-reference between the numbers and the actual values is unknown, too. *sigh*

I strongly suspect that both the resistors and the caps are needed to "switch on" the outputs on the sansa.

I may just try a direct-wire, and see what happens-- it could be that the resistance of an actual "live" connection is enough to switch on the sansa.

The extra components seem to be in parallel anyway.... they may just be noise filters.

I'm planning on modifying an existing car charger I already own, so that the power connetors are already "done" I just need to solder to the new, fully populated connector from the one on the charger (which _only_ has the power lines in the connector-- none of the rest are present).

Will post here, my results.
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  #15  
Old 12-08-2007, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob ofQF View Post
Been too busy to follow up on this project.

Thanks, shoefly2k for the tips on how to read the resistors. A digital multimeter may or may not work, depending on how it's terminated, but I may try that for the resistors.

As for the caps, they are large enough to read, but the brand is unknown, and therefore the cross-reference between the numbers and the actual values is unknown, too. *sigh*

I strongly suspect that both the resistors and the caps are needed to "switch on" the outputs on the sansa.

I may just try a direct-wire, and see what happens-- it could be that the resistance of an actual "live" connection is enough to switch on the sansa.

The extra components seem to be in parallel anyway.... they may just be noise filters.

I'm planning on modifying an existing car charger I already own, so that the power connetors are already "done" I just need to solder to the new, fully populated connector from the one on the charger (which _only_ has the power lines in the connector-- none of the rest are present).

Will post here, my results.
What were your results?
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  #16  
Old 12-11-2007, 07:53 AM
Daniel_e200 Daniel_e200 is offline
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Just yor you information:

If you use the alternative RockBox firmware, audiooutput is enabled by default. (Or maybe they just dont know/care how to disable it initially).

I just build/modded the delivered USB-cable and added a audio-out cable, so i can use the USB cable for charging and the audio out pluged into my aux in in my car-radio.

I used this two pics as reference -> http://jacobnwendy.com/sansa/ (Thx to that forum, and the one who put them up). Just connect the two cables labled "R" (right) and "L" (left) and "G" (ground) to a 3.5mm jack and voila.

If i boot up with the default firmware, i have nearly no output on these pins - with my scope at the maximum y-gain i can see some signs of the audiosignal - so it is really switched off with an analog-switch, and all i see is the signal which goes over the "off-resistance" of the switch (ie. crosstalk).

So to enable it with the orginal firmware you definitly need "help" from the CPU. So it is not (as someone speculated before) possible, to toggle the analog switch directly by setting one pin to gnd or vcc.

(By the way: i tried to connect a 47k resistor according to the two pictures: nothing happend, also tried to connect the GND to the other pins as seen on them: also no result... dont know how the firmware determines the external docks...)

CU
Daniel
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  #17  
Old 12-11-2007, 09:56 AM
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SBMongoos SBMongoos is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel_e200 View Post
Just yor you information:

If you use the alternative RockBox firmware, audiooutput is enabled by default. (Or maybe they just dont know/care how to disable it initially).

I just build/modded the delivered USB-cable and added a audio-out cable, so i can use the USB cable for charging and the audio out pluged into my aux in in my car-radio.

I used this two pics as reference -> http://jacobnwendy.com/sansa/ (Thx to that forum, and the one who put them up). Just connect the two cables labled "R" (right) and "L" (left) and "G" (ground) to a 3.5mm jack and voila.

If i boot up with the default firmware, i have nearly no output on these pins - with my scope at the maximum y-gain i can see some signs of the audiosignal - so it is really switched off with an analog-switch, and all i see is the signal which goes over the "off-resistance" of the switch (ie. crosstalk).

So to enable it with the orginal firmware you definitly need "help" from the CPU. So it is not (as someone speculated before) possible, to toggle the analog switch directly by setting one pin to gnd or vcc.

(By the way: i tried to connect a 47k resistor according to the two pictures: nothing happend, also tried to connect the GND to the other pins as seen on them: also no result... dont know how the firmware determines the external docks...)

CU
Daniel

Very cool. So, in short, if I use RockBox I can get an AudioOut on my Sansa e260. Also, to take advantage of it I need to rig up the Sansa USB cable to handle the AudioOut correct?

Any chance you have photos of your Sansa USB cable and your new wiring so I can use what you did to modify mine?

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  #18  
Old 12-11-2007, 11:37 AM
Daniel_e200 Daniel_e200 is offline
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Of course you have somehow to modify the plug - or at least buy a bare plug for the sansa and wire the usb and audio...

To rewire a existing USB plug you have three options:
*) leave the usb cable untouched and add a second, modify the housing of the plug to route a second cable for the aux.out out of it. (this is what i have done)... It is of course a bit tricky, but with some soldering experience and a dremel youll quickly find your way.

*) If you have a second usb-cable and only need this for your car/stereo.., you can rewire the D+/D- cables from the usb to the audio-pins. Than you can charge the device and get aux.out over only one cable. Just build a special USB-socket which provides 5V on the power-pins and takes audio from the Data pins and maybe route them to a 3.5mm jack.

*) replace the USB cable with an (at least) 6-wire cable and connect it to the power-pins, usb-data and audio pins... On the other side split it and mount one usb connector and a 3.5mm jack. Now you have all in one cable, and full functionallity.

I have figured out the pinout from the two pic posted on this thread (i mentioned the link earlier)

1 & 2... red/+5V
3 & 6... blk/gnd
5 ....... white/USB data
4 ....... green/USB data
28 ...... left audio out
27 ...... right audio out

sorry, i have not made any pics while building the connector - and now i have it hotglued together (bec. i had to dremel some clips away).

regards
Daniel
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Last edited by Daniel_e200; 12-11-2007 at 11:46 AM. Reason: pic added
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  #19  
Old 12-13-2007, 01:43 AM
rox rox is offline
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So has anyone figured out how to switch on the connector line out yet? I do have experience with smd components and an o-scope but I havent yet purchased a dock to look at. Maybe BobofQF could post pics of the griffin dock internals? The imjosh pics didnt show enough to be useful.
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  #20  
Old 12-13-2007, 04:23 AM
Daniel_e200 Daniel_e200 is offline
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ah... only chargeing... just say it before

(the plug you are using is usually for audio...)

plug this plug into your charger - measure which wire is plus which is minus - and the voltage should be 5V.

Connect the plus wire with red from the e200 and minus with the black from e200... The data cables (green/white) dont have to be terminated or anything special - just watch that they dont touch (contact) any other wire.

Thats it...
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