This no firmware thing is stupid

[iGot.a.mac]

The worst thing about there being no firmware update for the pilot is the fact that I can't return mine.

I returned my Insignia NS-DV4G to my local BB about a month ago, except i had lost the CD, headphones, and transfer cable that came with the NS-DV, so they told me that I had $120 store credit, but only for an Insignia mp3 player. So, I got the Insignia Pilot, but they literally cut the music player out of the box and handed it to me, keeping the CD, headphones, and transfer cable because I didn't return these things from the NS-DV. Now, there are no firmware updates which makes me want to return the pilot. So that I want to return my pilot, I can't, because I will only get $120 store credit towards Insignia mp3 players.

[CrowdAds]

[SaruNinja]

Yeah...this whole thing is a big letdown. I had hopes that the firmware would come out sometime in June or July, but i guess not...

I mean, the Pilot came out in September, so it's been nearly a year! what a shame...


Oh well, it's still a good MP3 player. It's not like i'm going to go buy another one just because they didn't release (or possibly didn't even make) a firmware update. My Pilot doesn't have that many bugs or glitches, i was just hoping for some new features such as Saving the "Now Playing" list as a Playlist, better bookmarking, gapless playback, maybe even an alarm....but whatever.

[covertrussian]

The player is not that bad. But I guess judging by your Screename you would prefer Steve Job's awful featureless product.

Seriously dude this player is pretty sweet. Yes it has bugs, but the features make it good.

Only reason I want firmware update is so that the SD Card boot times would be faster, everything else doesn't really matter.

[vferrari]

Ditto.

[rgvmp3]

Yes I agree, the only thing that really needs fixing is the SDHC bootup time. Having said that, going by the firmware editions that were released for the Sansa we had, I wouldn't hold your breath on that being fixed either. It never was on the Sansa.

The reason most consumer electronic devices have the ability to 'upgrade firmware' is not because of adding new features, it's to allow them to fix the firmware in case they make a major screwup when it's released. These products are just commodities now and once they are released they are working on the next one. Unless there is something seriously wrong with the device, they just have no incentive to 'upgrade' the firmware or even fix bugs.

Pocket PC owners soon learned that. I remember the first devices, we could upgrade to at least the next OS release. They then decided that wasn't a good idea as people had no incentive to purchase the next piece of hardware so they stopped doing it, and the only way you could upgrade the OS was by buying a completely new device. They basically were saying that the reason these devices have flash rom is just so they could fix any bugs and if you were lucky the odd enhancement. For my current pocket pc, an old HP 4350, that's all they did, was release an upgrade to allow it to use WPA wireless and nothing more.

So my point is, this doesn't surprise me in the least, but if it was unusable I would've already returned this to bestbuy as I had 30 days to do so. I am not expecting any new firmware at all now.

[covertrussian]

Originally Posted by rgvmp3

Yes I agree, the only thing that really needs fixing is the SDHC bootup time. Having said that, going by the firmware editions that were released for the Sansa we had, I wouldn't hold your breath on that being fixed either. It never was on the Sansa.

The reason most consumer electronic devices have the ability to 'upgrade firmware' is not because of adding new features, it's to allow them to fix the firmware in case they make a major screwup when it's released. These products are just commodities now and once they are released they are working on the next one. Unless there is something seriously wrong with the device, they just have no incentive to 'upgrade' the firmware or even fix bugs.

Pocket PC owners soon learned that. I remember the first devices, we could upgrade to at least the next OS release. They then decided that wasn't a good idea as people had no incentive to purchase the next piece of hardware so they stopped doing it, and the only way you could upgrade the OS was by buying a completely new device. They basically were saying that the reason these devices have flash rom is just so they could fix any bugs and if you were lucky the odd enhancement. For my current pocket pc, an old HP 4350, that's all they did, was release an upgrade to allow it to use WPA wireless and nothing more.

So my point is, this doesn't surprise me in the least, but if it was unusable I would've already returned this to bestbuy as I had 30 days to do so. I am not expecting any new firmware at all now.

Very very very legitimate and accurate post!

But that doesn't mean I'm giving up home, with Insignia it looks like in the past they have listened to people and added features. So there is some hope

[Theseus]

Regarding your point about Insignia and firmware: I just did a short work stint at BBY for a few months in the TV and Home Entertainment department. In that department and storewide, the biggest internal joke brands were Dynex and Insignia both BBY brands.
Why?
Because after stuff has been out on display for a while, the shoddy quality and build of materials becomes evident. I remember one Dynex 32 inch LCD where the brand name letters were literally ungluing one by one, each day.
The Insignias were a bit better, but not by much.
Both brands are basically used as loss leaders; the products are advertised with low price points to get you into the store and upsell you to a Sony or Samsung in the TV department or an ipod with all its accessories in the mp3 department.
And the margin on all things Insignia and Dynex is ridiculous.
Our discount was margin plus 5%. So something like the Pilot cost me $20.

Even with that low price I returned it though and bought a Zune ( a whole other bag of worries), because to my ears the sound quality was waaaay subpar, even with all the Pilot's extra features. I figured, it's main job is to play back audio and if doesn't do even that well, then what good is it?

Anyway, don't expect a firmware update for the Pilot. As the 8gb has dissapeared from the BBY website, it's a clear sign there's some new mp3 player that they're going to release soon, probably something that piggybacks the ipod announcement and product refresh/release in September.

[Theseus]

Just to add something real quicklY: the reason most retail store employees would steer you towards an ipod, rather than the Insignia, Zune or Creative players, isn't because they think it's of a higher quality. It's because the ipod has soooo many accessories and that's one of the two areas where retail electronics stores make most of their money: warranties and accessories.
The margin on ipod cases, cables, docks and everything else is insane. An ipod dock that they'd sell to you for say $100, probably only cost the store between $25-$30, if not less.

[rgvmp3]

Originally Posted by Theseus

Just to add something real quicklY: the reason most retail store employees would steer you towards an ipod, rather than the Insignia, Zune or Creative players, isn't because they think it's of a higher quality. It's because the ipod has soooo many accessories and that's one of the two areas where retail electronics stores make most of their money: warranties and accessories.
The margin on ipod cases, cables, docks and everything else is insane. An ipod dock that they'd sell to you for say $100, probably only cost the store between $25-$30, if not less.

Yes I would have to agree with you there, but that's not unique to mp3 players. It's the same with phones and other devices. Cases in particular are vastly overpriced in my opinion. I would never buy a more expensive Insignia device such as a TV etc but I don't think the Pilot is that badly built for the price and it certainly sounds good enough to me. The Sandisk range of mp3 players don't seem to be much better. I know as my wife has one although I have to admit the recent ones do seem to have a much more solid feel to them. Still I use mine mainly for podcasting so I don't need top quality anyway. I actually bought the Pilot because it actually offered features I wanted rather than because it was inexpensive although being on sale obviously helped.

The funny thing about consumer electronics I have found, is that everyone I know has their personal brand they dislike and if I listened to them all, I'd never get anything, even an ipod

[semiquaver]

saw a firmware update just recently, two years after release, so I think it's overly pessimistic to abandon all hope.

However, that upgrade was probably easy since the Pilot was just an enhanced NS-DV; the hardware is very similar. By now, this platform's showing its age. I'd bet that the next Insignia DAP is going to be based on new hardware, so the same easy firmware backport might not be in the cards for the Pilot.

Does anyone have any sales figures for the device? I'd be interested to know how many there are in the wild. While its true that if they're not on sale anymore it the prospects don't look great for a new FW, especially one with new features, they might do it just to engender goodwill with customers in order to keep them buying insignia -- or am I expecting too much from a generic house brand manufacturer?

[covertrussian]

Originally Posted by rgvmp3

Yes I would have to agree with you there, but that's not unique to mp3 players. It's the same with phones and other devices. Cases in particular are vastly overpriced in my opinion. I would never buy a more expensive Insignia device such as a TV etc but I don't think the Pilot is that badly built for the price and it certainly sounds good enough to me. The Sandisk range of mp3 players don't seem to be much better. I know as my wife has one although I have to admit the recent ones do seem to have a much more solid feel to them. Still I use mine mainly for podcasting so I don't need top quality anyway. I actually bought the Pilot because it actually offered features I wanted rather than because it was inexpensive although being on sale obviously helped.

The funny thing about consumer electronics I have found, is that everyone I know has their personal brand they dislike and if I listened to them all, I'd never get anything, even an ipod

Red Text: I will have to agree with you on that one. The Pilot is the only device that had everything that I wanted!

Blue Text:Very good point, I will have to agree with you on that. If I listened to my friends I would be sucking up to Steve Jobs using his iPhone, iPod, iBook, iHeadphones, iCrap, blah blah

[jlariviere]

The one thing I'm missing, is flac support...
Jeremie

[Conchchowder]

Originally Posted by covertrussian

If I listed to my friends I would be sucking up to Steve Jobs using his iPhone, iPod, iBook, iHeadphones, iCrap, blah blah

iDunno really fits their level of technowledge.

[poetryrocksalot]

Originally Posted by iGot.a.mac

The worst thing about there being no firmware update for the pilot is the fact that I can't return mine.

I returned my Insignia NS-DV4G to my local BB about a month ago, except i had lost the CD, headphones, and transfer cable that came with the NS-DV, so they told me that I had $120 store credit, but only for an Insignia mp3 player. So, I got the Insignia Pilot, but they literally cut the music player out of the box and handed it to me, keeping the CD, headphones, and transfer cable because I didn't return these things from the NS-DV. Now, there are no firmware updates which makes me want to return the pilot. So that I want to return my pilot, I can't, because I will only get $120 store credit towards Insignia mp3 players.

I don't understand. Why do you want to return a Pilot for an Insignia NS-DV4G?

And why can't you just exchange the pilot for the original NS-DV4G?

Isn't the firmware for NS-DV4G the same thing as the one for Pilot?

[Conchchowder]

Originally Posted by poetryrocksalot

I don't understand. Why do you want to return a Pilot for an Insignia NS-DV4G?

And why can't you just exchange the pilot for the original NS-DV4G?

Isn't the firmware for NS-DV4G the same thing as the one for Pilot?

Re-read the post.

He doesn't want to downgrade, he wants to get a DIFFERENT MP3 player but he is limited to store credit for INSIGNIA players.

Why would he want the original model he dumped?

[poetryrocksalot]

Originally Posted by Conchchowder

Re-read the post.

He doesn't want to downgrade, he wants to get a DIFFERENT MP3 player but he is limited to store credit for INSIGNIA players.

Why would he want the original model he dumped?

Oh, so was he saying that if there was a good firmware update for the Pilot, would he have want the insignia pilot instead or another brand?

[Conchchowder]

It isn't a matter of a good upgrade. There isn't any at all.

And, yes. It reads that way, doesn't it?

[d_headshot]

Originally Posted by covertrussian

The player is not that bad. But I guess judging by your Screename you would prefer Steve Job's awful featureless product.

Comparing the fuze to my brother's nano, the nano actually has more features than the fuze. But the sound quality, msc, and price is what made me chose the fuze. I actually would have got the d2 but I can't order things from internet.

Back on topic, why not just ask technical support if they have an idea when new firmware will be comming out.

[SaruNinja]

Originally Posted by d_headshot

Back on topic, why not just ask technical support if they have an idea when new firmware will be comming out.

Because multiple people have asked multiple times.

Here's an email that AnythingButIpod member Jackboot received from Insignia (it's in this thread: http://www.anythingbutipod.com/forum...ad.php?t=33859)

Thanks for reaching Insignia.

As you have explained in your E-mail, you wanted to know if we were planning
to release a new player to replace the Pilot.

First of all, let me apologize for the time that it took me
to provide you with a response. At this moment we are experiencing a higher
than normal quantity of E-mails. I understand that this is no excuse, however
I hope that you don't take this delay as a lack of consideration towards our
customers. We care about our customers and we are constantly working to
improve our products performance and our customer care.

As an answer to your question, we are not planning to release new models at
the moment. As soon as new models are released, they are sent to our exclusive
retailer, Best Buy, so I recommend you to check our website from time to time
or go to your nearest Best Buy store to find them.

[Theseus]

If Best Buy/Insignia is coming out with an updated 'Pilot' it likely was pulled at the last minute and is being revamped while Insignia works on the new firmware, if I had to guess.

Why would that be? I don't know if anybody else here besides me follows business news or the financial press, but about a few weeks ago there was a piece in the Wall Street Journal about BB. Apparently the retailer out and out bought all of Napster. Napster's stock was tanking and worth only a few dollars per share; Best Buy swooped in and bought them on the cheap.

My guess is since this happened, they've had to go back and rewrite their software to incorporate their new Napster service. Remember that they had the Rhapsody Best Buy software on the Insignia Pilot disks?

Then again, there might be NO Pilot follow-up. The Insignia brand also makes a lot of other 'me too' electronic devices that allows Best Buy to make a great margin sale. I'm guessing daps aren't the highest on their priority list; more likely flat panel HDTV's are.