android
  #1  
Old 12-24-2008, 06:42 PM
Coolvibes's Avatar
Coolvibes Coolvibes is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Spain
Posts: 353
Default Sony A828 Volume control problem

I recently got a Sony A828 but i have a problem
when conecting a Sony bluetooth headhones the volume buttons on the headphones overides the one on the player, the vol buttons on player simple wont work when bluetooth is conect , is this normal?

I suspect settings the volume on the player gets the volume higher
there is a slight variation between my Samsung P2 volume and sony A828
Samsung P2 volume seem "a little" higher but A828 has a fair volume however could be a bit higher
maybe the volume can get higher if there is a way to get the physical buttons to work while bluetooth headphones are being used.

Anyone else experience that vol buttons dont work on A828 when bluetooh is paired?

Last edited by Coolvibes; 12-24-2008 at 06:47 PM.
Reply With Quote

Advertisement [Remove Advertisement]

  #2  
Old 12-24-2008, 11:53 PM
pgh1969pa pgh1969pa is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 578
Default

The player works as designed and I also own the P2 too and I think it having both volume controls active is pointless. The Sony way is better IMHO.
Reply With Quote

  #3  
Old 12-25-2008, 10:51 AM
Coolvibes's Avatar
Coolvibes Coolvibes is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Spain
Posts: 353
Default

But can you confirm that pairing bluetooth headphones with the sony it disables the volume controls on the player?
Well is not all useless if for some reason the volume buttons on the headphones stop working one day then i have no way of controlling the volume.

There is something anoying with P2 is that every time your turn on the unit the volume is reset to Halfway so i allways have to turn it up
on Sony it does not happen if i put the volume at max when turn it on is on max

I also cant stop thinking that having bluetooth headphones disable the player buttons make me get a lower volume, again i compare to my other P2 where i could pump up the volume at max on headphones but volume could still get louder by using volume buttons on the player

So just to clariy :

1. Sony A828 disable the Player buttons when bluetooth headphones are conected only being able to use the buttons on the headphones?

2. If i set the volume to max 30 on player then conect bluetooh headphones that has the volume at max already on the headphones
will Sony A828 give me the max 30 volume i sat on the player before or does it lower the volume a bit

Except of this minor problem im happy with the Player
Reply With Quote

  #4  
Old 12-25-2008, 11:53 AM
Andreas's Avatar
Andreas Andreas is offline
Visiting troll from Pocketables
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Norway
Posts: 2,285
Default

If the P2 doesnt disable the volume control then its bugged, which isnt surprising consuidering it has the worst bluetooth implementation of any player on the market.

Your sony is the one doing what its supposed to.
http://www.anythingbutipod.com/archi...io-roundup.php
Reply With Quote

  #5  
Old 12-25-2008, 12:32 PM
pgh1969pa pgh1969pa is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 578
Default

So you're asking me to say the same thing twice? The Sony players with BT do not support dual volume controls. The A829 BT output functions in a quasi line out configuration with a set output level. Only the volume controls on the headphones are enabled while a BT connection is maintained. It is redundant to having both volume controls enabled under BT. If you encode your music at a respectable volume level, purchase a set of BT headphones with adequate amplification, and do not have a hearing issue, you will have more than enough volume from the A829 BT output.

BT mp3 players I own w/ "line out" A2DP (one volume control at the headphones)*
- Samsung YP-T9B
- Sony NWZ-A829
- Sony NWZ-S639F w/ Sony WLAN-B1 adapter.

*They all produce enough volume to induce hearing damage if listened to at a high volume levels long enough.

BT mp3 players I own w/o "line out" A2DP (volume controls work at transmitter and reciever)**
- Samsung YP-P2
- Samsung YP-T10

**The idea of having AVRCP controls on my headphones and still having to adjust the volume of these players at start up is a little annoying. If I used my shure IEMs with them (at volume levels of 3-7) and switched to BT, I have to crank the volume up to 20-30 to use the BT headsets at a respectable volume level.

I said having volume controls is "pointless" not "useless". If for some reason, the volume controls are broken on the BT headphones....it's broke and you need to have them repaired or replaced.

If the volume was set very low or very high on the headphones before they failed, you are still going to have problems with the output (clipping, too low). So yes, it is pointless. If something breaks, it breaks and the proper response is to repair or replace the item.
Reply With Quote

  #6  
Old 12-25-2008, 12:36 PM
pgh1969pa pgh1969pa is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 578
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cptnodegard View Post
If the P2 doesnt disable the volume control then its bugged, which isnt surprising consuidering it has the worst bluetooth implementation of any player on the market.

Your sony is the one doing what its supposed to.
http://www.anythingbutipod.com/archi...io-roundup.php
I HAVE THE P2 AND T10 AND COULDN'T AGREE WITH YOU MORE! Yes, I was shouting! The A2DP and AVRCP implementation on the P2 is kinda jacked up in a very real way! Clarity of music is lost and there is nothing that can be done to get it back because the the EQ is inoperative. I haven't found a single headphone that can bring enough life into the P2's BT output. I tried the S9, S9-HD, HT820, S805, SBH600, NS-BTHDP, DR-BT50, and the DR-BT21 and they all sound poor to mediocre. On the other hand, you can gain this clarity back by using the YP-T9B, NWZ-A829, or NWZ-S639/adapter with most of these headphones.

If Samsung can make the T9B sound just as good as the A289 under BT, why did they screw things up when the P2, T10, and possibly the P3 came along?

Last edited by pgh1969pa; 12-25-2008 at 01:04 PM.
Reply With Quote

  #7  
Old 12-25-2008, 01:38 PM
pgh1969pa pgh1969pa is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 578
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolvibes View Post
Well is not all useless if for some reason the volume buttons on the headphones stop working one day then i have no way of controlling the volume.
If the volume controls break on the P2, you have no adequate way of controlling the volume under both wired and wireless situations. If the same happens with the Sony, you can still use BT. Is that not the same issue but in reverse?
Reply With Quote

  #8  
Old 12-26-2008, 12:01 PM
Coolvibes's Avatar
Coolvibes Coolvibes is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Spain
Posts: 353
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pgh1969pa View Post
The Sony players with BT do not support dual volume controls. The A829 BT output functions in a quasi line out configuration with a set output level. Only the volume controls on the headphones are enabled while a BT connection is maintained. It is redundant to having both volume controls enabled under BT. If you encode your music at a respectable volume level, purchase a set of BT headphones with adequate amplification, and do not have a hearing issue, you will have more than enough volume from the A829 BT output.
Thanks that what i wanted to know
i am just concerned that the volume buttons on headset not give the same volume as manage it from the player
All music i listen to at Max volume at 100db i dont suffer from hearing which i tested for, as for headphones amplification
i dont have a amp on headphones maybe you can recomend a good settings on the Sony

What settings of this should be turned on for best sound on rock/pop music.

- VPT (Surround) on or off?
- DSEE ( sound enchance) on or off?
- Dynamic normalizer on or off?
- Equalizer settings (Heave/jazz/pop/custums) <-- so far set to unique
- Clear bass On or off?


Quote:
They all produce enough volume to induce hearing damage if listened to at a high volume levels long enough
I am 31 I have listened to Max volume at 100db since i was like 10
without having any hearing concern
I have done that daily for about 1-2 hours in row or more
needles to say i am used to have good sound and high volume
(I dont use in-ear sound isolation earphones because i dont feel comfortable sticking things inside my ears)


Quote:
BT mp3 players I own w/o "line out" A2DP (volume controls work at transmitter and reciever)**
- Samsung YP-P2
- Samsung YP-T10
Ok thats what i meant the P2 volume controls work on both transmitter and reciver yes so is not a faulty p2
i was just concerned if it was something wrong with the A828 but now i see is not , A828 is fine


Quote:
The idea of having AVRCP controls on my headphones and still having to adjust the volume of these players at start up is a little annoying
Wait a minute so is normal also that the P2 start with volume half way up always even if you turn it to max turn it off and then on again?
because thats the problem i have with P2
And that is very anoying because i cant acept a volume level of like 15/30
have to have 27-30/30 max
But then again it be noted i dont use In-ear sound isolation earphones
because my ears dont like earphones to put inside ear i use clipon headphones.
thats why i can tolarate to have higher volume if i was to use in-ear sound isolation i probaly not put volume at max

Quote:
I said having volume controls is "pointless" not "useless". If for some reason, the volume controls are broken on the BT headphones....it's broke and you need to have them repaired or replaced.
Well what if you wear a Hat/headwear or something for the cold in the winter
is always good have the buttons on player working too if headphones is hidden under
but i tend to use the buttons on the heaphones most of the time since is so easy.


Quote:
If the volume was set very low or very high on the headphones before they failed, you are still going to have problems with the output (clipping, too low). So yes, it is pointless. If something breaks, it breaks and the proper response is to repair or replace the item.
Maybe yea, still is there a reason why the Sony player disable the players volume players and on the P2 not , is it a difference in the technology used or is it p2 being touch screen and A828 not? Just currious
Reply With Quote

  #9  
Old 12-26-2008, 12:10 PM
Coolvibes's Avatar
Coolvibes Coolvibes is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Spain
Posts: 353
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pgh1969pa View Post
I HAVE THE P2 AND T10 AND COULDN'T AGREE WITH YOU MORE! Yes, I was shouting! The A2DP and AVRCP implementation on the P2 is kinda jacked up in a very real way! Clarity of music is lost and there is nothing that can be done to get it back because the the EQ is inoperative. I haven't found a single headphone that can bring enough life into the P2's BT output.
If Samsung can make the T9B sound just as good as the A289 under BT, why did they screw things up when the P2, T10, and possibly the P3 came along?
I agree with this EQ setings is disabled under bluetooth
maybe samsung though that since bluetooth has poorer sound people dont care about EQ well they was wrong on that

Maybe you are the right person to can help me enchance the sound on my Sony a828 i listen to a lost of Pop,rock and Jazz mostly

So what to turn on and off :
- VPT (Surround) on or off?
- DSEE ( sound enchance) on or off?
- Dynamic normalizer on or off?
- Clear bass On or off?

And then i need help with the equalizer so far is set to unique

Also remember that All Songs i use i Boost up the volume DB using Mp3gain

most song i find have around 94-98Db they all end up at 100db
after running the songs through mp3gain

I guess this also mean i cant have to much Bass and enchance sound then because having such high Db can make it sound distorted?
Reply With Quote

  #10  
Old 12-26-2008, 02:37 PM
pgh1969pa pgh1969pa is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 578
Default

I don't use VPT or DSEE because I think they actually do more harm to the sound than good but really it boils down to what your tastes are. I also disable the DN because I don't prefer volume normalization.

I do use a little clear bass and equalizer but it's difficult to provide suggestions because I tune the EQ to the headphone or IEMs in use. Each has it's own sound characteristics in handling the sound spectrum so I try to tune the different monitors to sound as similar as technically possible.
Reply With Quote

  #11  
Old 12-26-2008, 03:53 PM
pgh1969pa pgh1969pa is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 578
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolvibes View Post
Thanks that what i wanted to know
i am just concerned that the volume buttons on headset not give the same volume as manage it from the player
What do you feel is the difference? You can probably make music louder with the P2 or control it in finer increments but other than that, I would not guess that there are any other differences.

Quote:
All music i listen to at Max volume at 100db i dont suffer from hearing which i tested for
Just because you hearing is within a normal range today doesn't mean you are not doing long term damage. 100db is alot to deal with.

Quote:
as for headphones amplification, i dont have a amp on headphones maybe you can recomend a good settings on the Sony
Trust me...if you are using BT headphones, it has an amplifier built in.

Quote:
I am 31 I have listened to Max volume at 100db since i was like 10
without having any hearing concern
I have done that daily for about 1-2 hours in row or more
needles to say i am used to have good sound and high volume
This is unrelated to OT but I wanted to mention:
I can not speak to the quality of your hearing but is not uncommon for an adult of 31 years of age to have lost some of the hearing they used to have as a child due the to typical sounds of modern life. Unless you have had your hearing profiled across the normal audible sound range over the span of your life, it is difficult to say. If medical experts say that 80db and higher are potentially hazardous, I'll accept it since I don't have the medical background to contradict them. The sad thing about hearing loss is the person who is damaging their hearing is usually the last one to know. Certain frequencies begin to drop out gradually before they ever notice it is happening. Once the hearing loss is noticed by the person, it often is too late. Since I am not a MD, I will defer to their expertise. I'll add a link and a quote if you are interested:

http://www.asha.org/public/hearing/disorders/noise.htm

"If you think you have "gotten used to" the noise you are routinely exposed to, then most likely you have already suffered damage and have acquired a permanent hearing loss. Don't be fooled by thinking your ears are "tough" or that you have the ability to "tune it out"! Noise induced hearing loss is usually gradual and painless, but, unfortunately, permanent. Once destroyed, the hearing nerve and its sensory nerve cells do not regenerate!"

Quote:
Wait a minute so is normal also that the P2 start with volume half way up always even if you turn it to max turn it off and then on again?
because thats the problem i have with P2
Yes, it's normal. If the volume was set above 15 when the device was turned off, it will revert to 15 when it is turned on again. If it was below 15, it will maintain the volume set previously.

Quote:
Well what if you wear a Hat/headwear or something for the cold in the winter
is always good have the buttons on player working too if headphones is hidden under
but i tend to use the buttons on the heaphones most of the time since is so easy.
For every "what if" you create, it probably can be countered with another "what if" to the contrary. It's best to make the best of the situation at hand or choose something that works more to your liking.

Quote:
Maybe yea, still is there a reason why the Sony player disable the players volume players and on the P2 not , is it a difference in the technology used or is it p2 being touch screen and A828 not? Just currious
Only Sony and Samsung can answer that question with certainty but I simply think it came down to a design decision each team made. The touch screen has nothing to do with it and I'd venture to guess that the BT chips in either device will support both options. One is locking the output to a set level and the other allows it to vary. The hardware in both devices probably make both options possible.

Last edited by pgh1969pa; 12-26-2008 at 04:05 PM.
Reply With Quote

  #12  
Old 12-26-2008, 04:22 PM
Coolvibes's Avatar
Coolvibes Coolvibes is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Spain
Posts: 353
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pgh1969pa View Post
What do you feel is the difference? You can probably make music louder with the P2 or control it in finer increments but other than that, I would not guess that there are any other differences.
Samsung sound louder (which i like) but it might be Sony use some sort of Bluetooth backnoise reduction , some of the higher volume of samsung p2 could be because you hear the background noise
still would be better if the volume was louder.
Oh and the Sony has lot more frequent dropout of bluetooth
i cant even bear the sony player in the pocket without having a dropout in my area, i know this is only related to bluetooth but thats the reason i got A828 and not any other Sony player.




Quote:
Originally Posted by pgh1969pa View Post
Just because you hearing is within a normal range today doesn't mean you are not doing long term damage. 100db is alot to deal with..
I disagree there is other sounds here that realy harm you ears and street compared to some 100db music, but if you happy with lower sound (something i am not) then is ofcourse more advisable for the ear health


Quote:
Originally Posted by pgh1969pa View Post
Trust me...if you are using BT headphones, it has an amplifier built in
Maybe


Quote:
Originally Posted by pgh1969pa View Post
If medical experts say that 80db and higher are potentially hazardous, I'll accept it since I don't have the medical background to contradict them.
Belive me even 100db is not dangerous as long you not keep listening at that volume like 12 hours of day my ears after over 20 years listening experience is proof of that.
Also the reason why people get hearing problems are because of Concerts and airports i havent been at a aiport for like 20 years and is like 10 years since i was at a concerts.
in other words i am not concerned and i am not happy someone want to lower the volume because they think is harmful (this is mostly due to european union stupid regulation that think they know more than the rest of the world)



Quote:
Originally Posted by pgh1969pa View Post
"If you think you have "gotten used to" the noise you are routinely exposed to, then most likely you have already suffered damage and have acquired a permanent hearing loss. Don't be fooled by thinking your ears are "tough" or that you have the ability to "tune it out"! Noise induced hearing loss is usually gradual and painless, but, unfortunately, permanent. Once destroyed, the hearing nerve and its sensory nerve cells do not regenerate!".
Thanks for the concern , is always good to be aware of it but I am happy how it is, also science is progressing very fast now so it might not be impossible to restore hearing nervers sometimes in the future but we should not count on that
Oh and remember the ears dont last longer than your life anyway
with age the ears get bader anyway so now is time to enjoy while you can
Volume at Max Rock& roll baby



Quote:
Originally Posted by pgh1969pa View Post
Yes, it's normal. If the volume was set above 15 when the device was turned off, it will revert to 15 when it is turned on again. If it was below 15, it will maintain the volume set previously.!".
That just sux, thats the biggest thing i hate with P2
but it was not like that always, i think this came in some of the firmware upgrades but cant say for sure dont realy remember.
Reply With Quote

  #13  
Old 12-26-2008, 05:32 PM
pgh1969pa pgh1969pa is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 578
Default

Your ears, your business. I'll say nothing more.

Regarding BT headphones....there is no "maybe" about it. They all have amplifiers in them 100% of the time just as mp3 players have amplifiers in them 100% of the time. If you are using a BT to wired headphone adapter, it has an amplifier in it. There would be no sound otherwise.
Reply With Quote

  #14  
Old 12-27-2008, 05:12 AM
Coolvibes's Avatar
Coolvibes Coolvibes is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Spain
Posts: 353
Default

Anyone else experienced frequent bluetooth signal dropout (interference?)
when having the sony player in pocket and walking (this happen much more than on the samsung p2)
it didnt happen to me all the time maybe it was because i had a headwear i think headwear is correct word? it look something like this
http://www.univest-1.com/images/EPI/...gosMinimos.jpg

Maybe it caused the dropout but it seem the bluetooth signal on P2 is stronger, it could also be because the sony Player is much thinner, hence is more sensible to bluetooth dropout and interferences.

Problem now with my P2 is it turn it self off if i pause music when using bluetooth meaning i am going to use the sony player more and more
P2 have even started to disconect instantly when conecting so have to do it like 2-3 times, no such problems on sony so must be related to some P2 failure (Again)

To be frank P2 was not so good as expected it to be is fragile , buggy and very slow screen response
But Sony player is not so perfect since the volume is lower than P2 which is a little disapointment but not something i cant get use to i guess.


I think i be investing my money into Cowon S9 next year since P3 dont realy apeal so much to me
and just get rid of the P2
Next year Iriver will have new players, Cowon S9, sony touch and p3 so not realy a point of having the P2 now
Reply With Quote

  #15  
Old 12-31-2008, 11:50 AM
Coolvibes's Avatar
Coolvibes Coolvibes is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Spain
Posts: 353
Default

Is a shame the bluetooth signal is so weak
is impossible to have the player in the jeans i get like 20 cuts in 1 minute
in the jacket is a bit better still im not quite impressed with the bluetooth on A828, P2 did much better
I though sony could do better bluetooth on their players considering how good the sony headphones i have is
well they not

Is this bluetooth dropout/interference normal on Sony players?
is not the headphones since P2 is not loosing that much signal
The Bluetooth skip more than a 80s discman

Last edited by Coolvibes; 12-31-2008 at 06:50 PM.
Reply With Quote

  #16  
Old 01-22-2009, 09:50 PM
Coolvibes's Avatar
Coolvibes Coolvibes is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Spain
Posts: 353
Default

Ok so im getting more used to my A828 is easy to use and all that
I found out i good improve the quality on the bluetooth
so i have now set it to Higher sound setting

I cant say yet how better that is over normal bluetooth but it seem the Bass/grove get more deeper hence somehow making the volume a little louder but not much, i will keep testing outside to see.

Does anyone knows if the Bluetooth signal get stronger with the higher bluetooth settings since music is lesser compressed?

It also seem that how lower the Clear bass is on all songs except balads
the volume is louder i have set the Clear bass to +1 since i realy need some bass too.

i will keep testing it

I found an option that look like i can browse the music by folders
but i have never used it since all my music already is id3 tagged.

Anyway the bluetooth (atleast on normal setting) seem very open to dropouts I dont know if is just my A828 or if is my headphones but i dont find it normal

I will test it and ask Sony incase the problem of dropout continue
Reply With Quote

  #17  
Old 01-23-2009, 12:24 AM
pgh1969pa pgh1969pa is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 578
Default

Bluetooth is low-powered. The more obstructed the signal, the more the drops occur. The higher the bandwidth, the more prone to drop-outs. Lowing the bandwidth may give you a little improvement. Headphone antenna and device placement affect the signal. Some headphones are know for mediocre antenna placement (motorola S9) and others are better (motorola S805, DR-BT50).

Dropped signals can be improved by keeping the player out of your pants pocket (using an armband or a coat pocket). Chances are, there is nothing wrong with your player or headphones.
Reply With Quote

  #18  
Old 01-23-2009, 02:51 PM
Coolvibes's Avatar
Coolvibes Coolvibes is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Spain
Posts: 353
Default

I didnt quite understand about the bandwitch
can I keep the blutooth setting on high
or do i get more dropouts there than the low setting?

Yea it might be how the antenna is placed (on the player)
because on other bluetooth devices i dont get that much dropouts
sure dropouts will always be but is important to reduce them as much possible.

and yea having it in the panths and even in jacket gives dropouts
but even holding it and walking (movement) give dropouts

Is there anything like a "Bluetooth amplifier" that can make the bluetooth signal more stronger ?
Reply With Quote

  #19  
Old 01-24-2009, 03:27 PM
Coolvibes's Avatar
Coolvibes Coolvibes is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Spain
Posts: 353
Default

I tested now both my Samsung P2 (much lesser dropouts) and my Htc Hd mobile phone (not a single dropout very impressed)

I am going to call Sony and if i have to send it in for warranty i even do that the bluetooth signal on the sony can impossible be that weak

Here is my test so far on my bluetooth players:

Player in panths:
Sony A828 - Dropout all the time is just useless
Samsung P2 - Some dropouts but is okey to listen to
Htc HD phone - Not a single dropout very impressing

Player in jacket:
Sony A828 - Lesser dropout but still irritating
Samsung P2 - almost no dropouts
Htc Hd phone - Not a single dropout

Player in hand sitting still:
Sony A828 - Almost no dropout
Samsung P2 - almost no dropout
Htc Hd phone - No dropout at all

Player in hand walking :
Sony A828 - Some dropout bit better than sitting and having it in jacket
Samsung P2 - some dropout but much lesser than Sony
Htc Hd phone - Not a single dropout

HTC wins hands down here followed by Samsung
People that buy the sony expecting it to use it for only bluetooth might be dispointed either that or my Sony a828 is broken

I will call Sony and see what they say
is a shame because the sony else is a great player is only the Bluetooh conexion that is bugging me is totaly useless
Reply With Quote

Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:28 AM.