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  #1  
Old 01-14-2010, 07:11 PM
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elcolombianoboi elcolombianoboi is offline
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Default MS need to upgrade Zune Pass or Lower Price

Does anyone else think that Microsoft is charging to much for zune pass. netflix is down to nine dollars now. zune pass is very high for just music. it should offer videos now as well if it wants to stay at that price, specially with no youtube app in sight. Thats just me what does anyone else think.
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  #2  
Old 01-14-2010, 07:30 PM
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McDougal McDougal is offline
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I fully agree with you. I think that if MS is only going to do music, then they should lower the price down to $5 a month. I think the zune pass is a great idea, but I'm not willing and don't have the money to pay $15 a month.
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  #3  
Old 01-14-2010, 10:17 PM
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elcolombianoboi elcolombianoboi is offline
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Yeah they should look into having more than one option. Maybe have one that does not let u keep ten tracks, one with videos, idk just more options. Also lower price.
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  #4  
Old 01-15-2010, 06:47 AM
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Shadows1990 Shadows1990 is offline
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My suggestion would have 3 different tiers:

1. The cheapest option: Just music.
2. Music + TV
3. The most expensive option - Music, TV + Film.

I wouldn't use the film and TV abilities, so having the option for just music would suffice.
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  #5  
Old 02-04-2010, 09:16 PM
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It's a bargain...you get a free album to keep and all the other music you can handle on the rental side
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  #6  
Old 02-05-2010, 10:57 AM
pressstart pressstart is offline
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Yea, it's pretty much $5 for the music buffet as long as you use your monthly credits up before they expire. Seems like a decent deal still.
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Old 02-15-2010, 02:22 PM
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medion medion is offline
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I've posted this before, and I'll try again for further clarification. Right now, MS cannot realistically lower the price. The price is essentially set by the RIAA. When you listen to songs from Zune Pass, MS has to pay the record labels something along the lines of 1 cent per listen for a song (the actual amount may be different, but this is along the same lines of how the radio works). In addition to that, when you "buy" your 10 songs per month, MS has to pay the labels the equivalent as if you had just bought the song off Zune, Itunes, Amazon, etc. This is probably 69 cents per song, if memory serves me right.

So if you use your Zune Pass to purchase 10 songs ($6.90), and you have 500 listens to songs that are Zune Pass content ($5.00), then MS just paid out $11.90 to the record labels. Also, when you factor in interchange fees (average of 35 cents per transaction plus 2.5% of the transaction), when MS billed you $14.99 for the month, your credit card interchange took 72 cents. So out of that monthly $14.99 you're paying, that leaves about $2.37 for MS. Of course, that's based on your number of listens (applies only to Zune Pass content, not content you already own).

Needless to say, MS loves the people that forget to use their 10 song credits, since that helps to subsidize the heavy listeners. So, I'm with you in that I would like a cheaper plan, but until the RIAA backs off and lowers their demands, MS can't do much about it. Currently, Zune Pass is the cheapest subscription that I'm aware of. Almost everyone else is also charging $15/month, except that they don't give you any song credits.
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Old 04-28-2010, 01:48 PM
NSILMike NSILMike is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by medion View Post
I've posted this before, and I'll try again for further clarification. Right now, MS cannot realistically lower the price. The price is essentially set by the RIAA. When you listen to songs from Zune Pass, MS has to pay the record labels something along the lines of 1 cent per listen for a song (the actual amount may be different, but this is along the same lines of how the radio works). In addition to that, when you "buy" your 10 songs per month, MS has to pay the labels the equivalent as if you had just bought the song off Zune, Itunes, Amazon, etc. This is probably 69 cents per song, if memory serves me right.

So if you use your Zune Pass to purchase 10 songs ($6.90), and you have 500 listens to songs that are Zune Pass content ($5.00), then MS just paid out $11.90 to the record labels. Also, when you factor in interchange fees (average of 35 cents per transaction plus 2.5% of the transaction), when MS billed you $14.99 for the month, your credit card interchange took 72 cents. So out of that monthly $14.99 you're paying, that leaves about $2.37 for MS. Of course, that's based on your number of listens (applies only to Zune Pass content, not content you already own).

Needless to say, MS loves the people that forget to use their 10 song credits, since that helps to subsidize the heavy listeners. So, I'm with you in that I would like a cheaper plan, but until the RIAA backs off and lowers their demands, MS can't do much about it. Currently, Zune Pass is the cheapest subscription that I'm aware of. Almost everyone else is also charging $15/month, except that they don't give you any song credits.
A couple of clarifications...
1) The RIAA does not and cannot legally set prices. They represent a group of competitors, and that would be price fixing.
2) Also, the price per play business model would generally apply to streaming only, not plays from local pass content. Zune is essentially a webcaster in that context, and would be bound by the same internet radio royalties that stations like Pandora are. Of course, since they also sell, and rent music, they may have a more complex deal (that we'll never hear about.) But, it's pretty unlikely that MS could/would tolerate a 'per play' model except for streams... Even the labels probably wouldn't like it. They'd want a known $ qty per rented track per unit of time, and it's quite likely that many subscribers download a ton of 'crud' they listen to once or twice and forget about.
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Old 04-29-2010, 05:06 AM
m_k m_k is offline
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Originally Posted by NSILMike View Post
Also, the price per play business model would generally apply to streaming only, not plays from local pass content. Zune is essentially a webcaster in that context, and would be bound by the same internet radio royalties that stations like Pandora are. Of course, since they also sell, and rent music, they may have a more complex deal (that we'll never hear about.) But, it's pretty unlikely that MS could/would tolerate a 'per play' model except for streams... Even the labels probably wouldn't like it. They'd want a known $ qty per rented track per unit of time, and it's quite likely that many subscribers download a ton of 'crud' they listen to once or twice and forget about.
Trivial to implement on the Zune, since once you link a player to an account, it "phones home" with a full report of EVERYTHING you've done -- what you've listened to, viewed, how many times, etc.

Freaked me out the first time I logged into their site to search for some information, and saw a list of the last few podcasts I'd listened to. NONE of their damn business, since I did NOT buy/rent/borrow ANYTHING from them. I basically got tricked into linking the player (big signage urging to Just Do It, with the ONLY obvious privacy caveat being attached to an option to report problems. The REAL privacy stuff -- the "total information feed" once you link to an account -- is buried in the boilerplate with NO big arrows pointing to it. And, unless they've changed their terms since I wandered into that swamp, they will NEVER STOP recording your usage, EVEN IF YOU WANT TO DISASSOCIATE from the account.

I went through all sorts of hell breaking that chain. I forget exactly what it entailed (telling the software to "forget this device" and then renaming it, and I may have formatted the player... it was a while back). Eventually, it STOPPED saying that it was linked to the account, and, it STOPPED reporting my usage to their server).

Lately, though, it's been saying that it's linked to (with no account referenced), so I think it MAY be trying to bust back into the plantation. Since I do NOT know if it's trying to report my usage to some generic "no specific account" database, and since my usage is NONE of their damn business, and, since they have SO artfully crafted their zune.exe system so that it REFUSES to be blocked by the Vista firewall (after I manually blocked every damn piece of it I could find, it STILL informs me that it "needs" to update to the latest version -- an impossibility over a modem, and, nothing I'm inclined to do, since it means giving up functionality for no reason), I now take my machine offline before running the zune program.

What a PITA...

Anyway, for those who DO have their players linked (i.e., those using the rental stuff that NEEDS an account), the per-play data is there. NO problem with reporting usage to RIAA, since they're already collecting it.
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Old 04-29-2010, 07:31 PM
NSILMike NSILMike is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m_k View Post
Trivial to implement on the Zune, since once you link a player to an account, it "phones home" with a full report of EVERYTHING you've done -- what you've listened to, viewed, how many times, etc.

[snipped
trivial to implement does not mean they do it. And remember that you can play MP3s on other devices and other applications...that don't report play counts. Counting streams makes sense... counting plays is impossible to do accurately.
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Old 04-29-2010, 09:11 PM
m_k m_k is offline
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Originally Posted by NSILMike View Post
trivial to implement does not mean they do it. And remember that you can play MP3s on other devices and other applications...that don't report play counts. Counting streams makes sense... counting plays is impossible to do accurately.
Whoa! Let's reign it in just a tad, eh? A little LOGIC with that word salad, please!

We're not talking about bought and paid for MP3 files (even though when on the Zune they ARE reported back to Mother). For purposes of ROYALTY PAYMENTS we're talking about reporting per-play data on DRM'd non-MP3 files (the "rented" content that you can only listen to while your account is paid up).

You can NOT take one of THOSE songs, copy it to another player, and listen to it.

PS: "trivial to implement does not mean they do it." -- wow, you don't even OWN a Zune, do you?

I already explained that they ARE doing it. This is not conjecture, this is FACT. Look at the privacy boilerplate, hell, look at the WEBSITE after you've linked your Zune to your account -- you'll SEE that they ARE doing it -- you'll SEE a list of what you've played on your Zune.

Sheesh.

Last edited by m_k; 04-29-2010 at 09:29 PM.
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Old 04-30-2010, 09:09 AM
NSILMike NSILMike is offline
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Originally Posted by m_k View Post
Whoa! Let's reign it in just a tad, eh? A little LOGIC with that word salad, please!

We're not talking about bought and paid for MP3 files (even though when on the Zune they ARE reported back to Mother). For purposes of ROYALTY PAYMENTS we're talking about reporting per-play data on DRM'd non-MP3 files (the "rented" content that you can only listen to while your account is paid up).

You can NOT take one of THOSE songs, copy it to another player, and listen to it.

PS: "trivial to implement does not mean they do it." -- wow, you don't even OWN a Zune, do you?

I already explained that they ARE doing it. This is not conjecture, this is FACT. Look at the privacy boilerplate, hell, look at the WEBSITE after you've linked your Zune to your account -- you'll SEE that they ARE doing it -- you'll SEE a list of what you've played on your Zune.

Sheesh.
So, here's the logic.
1) the post I commented upon referred to royalties on Zune Pass tracks, not 'streamed' zune pass tracks...just 'zune pass tracks.' I clarified that in the current environment royalties apply to streamed tracks, not local tracks, DRM'd or not. That is the current business model, and was established by congress, and is monitored and run by the Copyright Royalty Board, who are a panel of 3 US judges appointed by the US Librarian of Congress.
2) Zune Pass tracks use a variation of Windows Media DRM. Plays-for-Sure is also a variant of Windows Media DRM. Guess what? Zune DRM'd tracks will play in Windows Media Player. They will also play on Plays-for-Sure compliant devices when sync'd on via WMP (for now anyway...it's completely unsupported and not at all well known.) Obviously, these play counts are not being phoned home.
3) I am not disputing that the zune software phones home. But it can only do so for what it knows about.
4) I own 2 zunes, and in fact am a Zune MVP. I do know a bit about this stuff...
Cheers...it's a good and interesting discussion

Last edited by NSILMike; 04-30-2010 at 10:09 AM.
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