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Old 08-14-2011, 08:19 AM
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medion medion is offline
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I kind of doubt thats a factor given that WP7 hasn't even been out for 2 years at this point, and most people don't buy their current phone in order to setup the purchase of their future phone
It is. If I'm buying an Android device, I have to take the UX into consideration for my next purchase. Will Netflix work? Will it have Sense? Will I become dependent on these features? With WP7, I know MS is being restrictive on the UX, meaning when it comes time to upgrade, I will get a similar experience across all phones.

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Heh looking at that page theres only one WP7 device for Verizon and its a slate. Same for sprint. But yeah, I guess if you're that couple percent of smartphone users who happen to be on AT&T and not already using an iPhone, you're in luck because they have two form factors! Big slate and small slide out phone.
My point was that the phone was offered in more than just the iPhone shape. Your attempt to brush it off rather than directly address it is disappointing. I expected better from you.

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Could you name some advantages that you think appeal to any significant fraction of people? Note that I'm not interested in what appeals to you or to I, but rather advantages that enable the WP7 platform to sell in larger volumes.

So far you've just suggested "makes it easier to buy your next phone" which is not really all that exciting an advantage. Actually I'm not even sure making your think about a replacement before you get out of the store is even an advantage
Right now, because they're behind both iOS and Android, MS has to play catch up on features. This means adding some unique features of their own. I'm not saying they've been successful, but I see where the attempt was made. They wanted to throw in Xbox Live integration to lure their Xbox users, built-in Office to lure business-focused consumers into forcing their IT departments to adopt it, and Zune integration to compete with iTunes (something Android lacks...thank god). They are aiming for the mass market, but their implementation right now is raw.

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Yes the fact that internally every WP7 device is required to have virtually identical hardware that costs more to make then a lot of what Apple sells is a factor. It certainly makes it harder get carriers to push the hardware when it costs them quite a lot to do so.
I'm not so sure that the 1st and 2nd gen Snapdragons cost more than the A4 at this point. I would think they'd be in the same neighborhood, even with Apple's economies of scale. However, that's speculation on my part, because I really don't know.

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It seems to me you (and actually almost everyone in this thread) have a really skewed view of the smartphone hardware market if you think a 1GHz Snapdraggon (until a couple months ago the absolute fastest cell phone processor) is "mid-range". By this definition something like 90% of the market doesn't even meet the mid-range level.
Actually, phones using these 2nd-gen Snapdragons are going on contract for $0-$99 these days (up to $149 direct from carriers). They're single core. They don't compete with the modern dual-core offerings.

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Using a more reasonable definition, we might conclude that ARM11 processors at 65 nm are currently the low end, while cortex A8s are the mid range, with Snapdraggon around the high end. Yeah I guess theres a couple badly handicapped A9 parts out there (atrix, that LG phone) but they're not exactly blockbuster products given how hard it is to do an A9 at 45 nm. We might expect snapdraggon at 45 nm to drop to midrange sometime in mid to late 2012 when 28nm production really begins to ramp up, and A8s to lowend sometime around 22nm process node in about 2015 make them cost effective verses ARM11.
How is that more reasonable? I agree that ARM11 is low-end today. A8 is mid with SD at high? Sorry, but that's incorrect. A8 and Snapdragon are in the same ballpark. Snapdragon is only 5% faster in real world applications. Also, most A8s have superior GPUs compared to Snapdragon. A8 and Snapdragon is mid-range, while A9 and dual-core are the high end today. There is nothing "reasonable" about your definitions.

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In terms of specs, its actually aimed well above iPhone 4, and probably a bit below the as yet unannounced iPhone 5. So I would say MS's original plan was to try and one up Apple by launching their own higher end platform that would eventually trickle down to the mid range in the 2012-2013 time frame. Basically catch Apple out of place in 2010. But Android happened first and now they're kind of stuck trying to figure out what to do with what they have.
Second gen single-core Snapdragon is not "well above" the iPhone 4. The CPU is about 5% faster than the A8 used in the iPhone 4, clock for clock. Yes, the iPhone 4 is underclocked, but not by much. At 850mhz, it's still within striking distance of the Snapdragon. The GPU used on the iPhone 4 is roughly 30-50% faster than the Adreno 205 on the 2nd gen Snapdragon. This puts the two chipsets overall in the same neighborhood. Neither is "well above" the other.
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