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  #21  
Old 09-22-2011, 09:49 AM
skip252 skip252 is offline
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Arguing from authority doesn't work very well here. So what some association says it can't be done? People here tend to work with what can be done rather than what someone says can't be done. It's created some bricked devices and caused the unwary to jump into things they regretted but the results are often considered worth the risks. See Rockbox.

From the first day the standard was published it was conjectured that it would be possible to do what razorblader has done. Someone that has made the decision to use Rockbox voided their warranty the moment they installed the bootloader. They aren't real likely to back away from attempting to use a SDXC card in that Rockboxed player or be much concerned about the possibility of not being able to use it in a compliant device again.
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  #22  
Old 09-22-2011, 10:04 AM
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Marvin the Martian Marvin the Martian is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Celestial Being View Post
The SD Association and the manufacturers (Sandisk, Panasonic, Lexar, etc.) have EXPLICITLY stated that SD & SDHC devices can NOT be used with SDXC cards. I've posted extensively on this topic in the Clip Zip review thread. Only SDXC devices with the SDXC logo will work with SDXC cards according to the SD Association and the manufacturers.

The SD Association and the manufacturers have stated that you should NOT format a SDXC card in an incompatible format such as FAT32.

As mentioned earlier, no one is selling 64GB microSDXC cards yet, razorblader used a full sized SDXC card.
I beg to differ....http://www.sandisk.com/products/mobile1-memory-products/sandisk-ultra-microsdxc-card
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  #23  
Old 09-22-2011, 11:51 AM
JK98 JK98 is offline
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Lately I have been putting many 32kbps podcasts and lectures on my player. About 72 hours of these fit in each GB. How many hours of these do I need on the player? Of course more storage is better, however I only want huge storage if it is cheap.

How many people will rush to buy a 64GB micro SDXC card if it is over $200? How fast will the SDXC cards be? Many won't buy a class 2 card, and some won't even buy any class 4 cards. When a fast SDXC card gets under $60 I might be interested. I still haven't even bought a 16GB or 32GB card. For now I make due with 8GB cards. i guess I might buy a 16GB card when prices for a fast card drop a bit more.
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  #24  
Old 09-22-2011, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skip252 View Post
Arguing from authority doesn't work very well here. So what some association says it can't be done? People here tend to work with what can be done rather than what someone says can't be done. It's created some bricked devices and caused the unwary to jump into things they regretted but the results are often considered worth the risks. See Rockbox.

From the first day the standard was published it was conjectured that it would be possible to do what razorblader has done. Someone that has made the decision to use Rockbox voided their warranty the moment they installed the bootloader. They aren't real likely to back away from attempting to use a SDXC card in that Rockboxed player or be much concerned about the possibility of not being able to use it in a compliant device again.
Thank you skip, couldn't have said it better.

For those who still are in doubt:

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Digital

SDXC

The Secure Digital Extended Capacity (SDXC) format was unveiled at Consumer Electronics Show (CES) 2009 (January 7–10, 2009). The maximum capacity defined for SDXC cards is 2 TB (2048 GB). The older SDHC cards also have a maximum capacity of 2 TB based on the card data structures, but this is artificially limited to 32 GB by the SD 2.0 specification. The first SDXCs being released are governed by an SD 3.0 specification (which also still specifies FAT32 and thus lower capacities), whereas higher capacity and faster SDXCs are expected to follow an SD 4.0 specification, which was formally announced in January 2011.

The maximum transfer rate of SDXCs which follow the SD 3.0 specification was announced as 832 Mbit/s (these are called UHS104 speeds), with plans that the SD 4.0 specification shall increase this to 2.4 Gbit/s.

The SDcard association selected Microsoft's proprietary exFAT file system in the official SDXC specification; however, as with SD and SDHC, it is still a plain block device and thus arbitrary partitioning and other file systems can be used, such as btrFS, ext4, HFS Plus, NTFS, UFS, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin the Martian View Post
I've got 58.36GB of music on my 64GB player. It averages out at 231kbps, and totals 6,706 songs....that seems like a pretty decent amount of stuff to have on hand.

On the other hand, for a Clip+ or Clip Zip, I think 8GB+16GB is enough. The battery will be spent in 15-18 hours, assuming Rockbox is installed, and 10-12 without RB.....so no need for more than 24GB of tunes, I don't think. Better to be selective of what you load on it, rather than waste battery skipping an occasional song.
Would have to agree with you there Marv, there are still plenty of people who wonder how they will ever fill up the internal memory of their Clip+, Fuze or Clip Zip (or any other player) if it exceeds 4GB so the storage hogs are certainly not the mainstream crowd as far as mp3-players are concerned. The demographic of this site is somewhat different though I assume.

All this won't stop me of course from cramming as much storage in those innocent little Sansa players as possible.
They'll pay for having an expansion slot.
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Last edited by razorblader; 09-23-2011 at 04:27 PM.
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  #25  
Old 09-22-2011, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by razorblader View Post
Would have to agree with you there Marv, there are still plenty of people who wonder how they will ever fill up the internal memory of their Clip+, Fuze or Clip Zip (or any other player) if it exceeds 4GB so the storage hogs are certainly not the mainstream crowd as far as mp3-player are concerned. The demographic of this site is somewhat different though I assume.
Just 3 short years ago, I had my first ever DAP, a blue Fuze 4GB with an 8GB card, and wondered how I could ever fill up all that space.....lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by razorblader View Post
All this won't stop me of course from cramming as much storage in those innocent little Sansa players as possible.
They'll pay for having an expansion slot.
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  #26  
Old 09-22-2011, 04:32 PM
Son of Kalas Son of Kalas is offline
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everyone thanks for your help but i think i'll get a 160gb archos tablet and use that instead
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  #27  
Old 09-22-2011, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Celestial Being View Post
Wow, $220 for 64 GB is expensive. Did anyone here really buy one at that price?
0.o @razor...

Then again, All I can really say is I'm jealous of people who can through down that sorta cash.
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  #28  
Old 09-22-2011, 09:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steinburger1109 View Post
0.o @razor...

Then again, All I can really say is I'm jealous of people who can through down that sorta cash.
The card I used was a Transcend SDXC which cost me less than 100 bucks.
Wouldn't pay 220,- for a memory card unless it's at least 1 TB.

@CB Now you got me really worried, some unforeseen, secret problems with FAT32 and SDXC that only the sworn-in technicians know about (and you apparently ) that will magically turn my card unuseable at some random point.

Thanks for pointing that out.
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  #29  
Old 09-22-2011, 10:08 PM
JK98 JK98 is offline
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$220 for a 64GB micro SDXC card???? I doubt I would be willing to pay more than $60 for one. I guess it will probably take 2 years for this to drop to $60, and by then there may be 256GB micro SDXC cards available. I guess perhaps the 64GB micro SDXC card might be discounted to around $150 at the end of the year.

I wonder if the 32GB micro SDHC cards will be under $30 by the end of the year. I see some are around $45 now.
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  #30  
Old 09-22-2011, 10:44 PM
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Whether $220 breaks individual budgets does not factor into them being on the market. They are out there for those motivated enough to have them. Like people who smuggle large amounts of data on encrypted ghost partitions on microSD cards placed into dumbphones and DAP's. Just saying...
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  #31  
Old 09-22-2011, 10:57 PM
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Those cards will be significantly cheaper as soon as they're for sale somewhere besides SanDisk's own website...lol.
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  #32  
Old 09-22-2011, 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Marvin the Martian View Post
Those cards will be significantly cheaper as soon as they're for sale somewhere besides SanDisk's own website...lol.
Watch as Amazon picks it up for 5 bucks more #clipzip
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  #33  
Old 09-22-2011, 11:22 PM
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I can't wait for it to drop in price myself,...
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  #34  
Old 09-22-2011, 11:24 PM
JK98 JK98 is offline
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Not that much cheaper. The 64 GB micro SDXC cards might not be under $150 until sometime next year. I hope the price on the 32GB micro SDHC cards gets under $30 soon.
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  #35  
Old 09-22-2011, 11:32 PM
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Marvin the Martian Marvin the Martian is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steinburger1109 View Post
Watch as Amazon picks it up for 5 bucks more #clipzip
Point taken with the Zip (of course, that was before they were pulled from the site).....but look here...http://anythingbutipod.com/forum/sho...&postcount=197
Granted, those Amazon prices in that post are nearly a month old, but historically the card prices are always way higher either from the manufacturer's website, or if you buy them in a brick and mortar store, than they are on any number of websites.
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  #36  
Old 09-22-2011, 11:54 PM
Skinkutter Skinkutter is offline
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I can't see too many people complaining about spending 200 or so on a 64gb memory card. Think about it; the price of a 64g ipod is currently at least 160 more than the same model in 8gb. if I had it to spare I would jump all over it!
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  #37  
Old 09-23-2011, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skip252 View Post
Arguing from authority doesn't work very well here. So what some association says it can't be done?
But...he is a Celestial Being...

Seriosuly though, I have seen many maufacturers and engineers make design and usage statements based on conservative probability to avoid liability. Conspiracy buffs like to say that they are sometimes made to move consumers to new products. All I know is sometimes things change or things aren't consistent enough for a manufacturer/engineer to make a definitive broad statement so they won't touch it. If I believed the manufacturer and engineer claims without question or experimentation, I wouldn't have ever overclocked a processor, put a 1200 watt amp on a 600 watt rated subwoofer, or intentionally deviated from my tire manufacturers specific PSI recommendation. Both actions required careful sets of parameters and would have led to equipment failure or erratic results in the hands of someone less knowledgeable...aka the standard consumer.

witht hat said...I believe an official claim until I see some definitive proof myself.

Last edited by IDvsEGO; 09-23-2011 at 01:46 PM.
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  #38  
Old 09-23-2011, 01:58 PM
skip252 skip252 is offline
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To do what razorblader has done a person would need to be capable of performing research needed to format the card in the right way. Anyone that is able to do that is also capable of making the decision to risk their property or not.

Posting a warning of potential problems is one thing. Continuous rants powered by some misguided need to protect people from themselves are another. This is not someone sticking a fork in an electric outlet.

Those need to stop. It's been said enough times now.
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  #39  
Old 09-24-2011, 12:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IDvsEGO View Post
But...he is a Celestial Being...
Rofl

@Marv, it was mostly a joke, in all seriousness, Amazon normally has pretty great prices, and I AM looking forward to see what they're willing to offer the cards for.
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  #40  
Old 09-24-2011, 12:30 AM
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Marvin the Martian Marvin the Martian is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steinburger1109 View Post
Rofl

@Marv, it was mostly a joke, in all seriousness, Amazon normally has pretty great prices, and I AM looking forward to see what they're willing to offer the cards for.
Yeah, I thought as much, but your Clip Zip example was legit, after all.
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