Nokia Lumia 900 hits the UK with Tango in tow

[The DarkSide]

Originally Posted by Jeven

Read Tomi Ahonen's blog - plenty of facts there about how Nokias aren't even selling in Finland, and much more besides: http://communities-dominate.blogs.com/

Sorry, if you're stupid enough to buy a Nokia Windows phone on a contract, then you really are beyond any redemption.

Wow, Finland equates to the REST of the world??? That's mighty small minded.

And, I'd be careful whom you call stupid - considering that what you've posted so far is sheer speculation, fallacies, and myths.

[CrowdAds]

[steinburger1109]

Originally Posted by sideways

I did not know there was a zune limitation on transfering music to windows phones. If that is the case then for sure I would not buy one.

You have to use Zune Software or Windows Phone Connector (for Macs) to sync directly to WP7 phones.

Lawl at the rest of this thread. Speculating that people will shy away from a new OS on a new device merely because Nokia released a dud a while back is just silliness.

I read over that list. Most of it was ludicrous and dumb, people fishing for problems with the device because, as DarkSide astutely noted, people like to hate on MS.

On the Swype issue, I LOVE it. But I don't think that a Nokia Windows Phone lacking a proprietary Samsung Android keyboard is a legitimate reason to bitch and moan. The Lumia has sold very well. I know one thing: if it hits US Cellular ever, I definitely will be one of the first in line to get my hands on it.

[The DarkSide]

I just can't believe I'm defending a MS produced, Zune rockin', non-EQ having device. I'll be honest and say a device or software/OS sux when I believe it does. The OS on my WP is great. There are a few minor glitches, but it's still fine for my uses. And, as time progresses, the OS will mature - the same as iOS. Android, for my tastes, is too unrefined and fragmented. But, it's still an excellent OS as well. But for me it's either WP or iOS.

But, above all else, I've used the OS's we discussed. And formed an opinion of them after a time with them. I didn't read BS posts or blogs, and I'm not biased in any way towards any of them.

TBH I luv the new Nokia PureView 41 megapixel phone as well. And, if I'm not mistaken, it's running Symbian. And I have no issue with that either. But I guess someone will - it wasn't made in Finland or Hungary.

[Jeven]

The PureView is a different kettle of fish - it definitely wasn't designed by Microsoft, but is the Nokia of old. I doubt whether it was outsourced to non-Nokia factories and re-badged like the Lumia series. Of course, it has nothing to do with Elop.

Anyone buying it won't care about the OS.

[Jeven]

a loss of nearly $2 billion dollars won't be turned around by further losses on Lumia - or on any other phone Nokia makes. http://www.iphonehacks.com/2012/04/n...-carriers.html

From 29% market share of all smartphones at the end of 2010 to just 7% currently, projected to be just 3% at the end of this year.

Nokia is going down the toilet with its toxic brand

[steinburger1109]

Originally Posted by Jeven

From 29% market share of all smartphones at the end of 2010 to just 7% currently, projected to be just 3% at the end of this year.

This statistic in no way reflects Nokia's adoption of the Lumia. The decline likely started well before then and is independent of current advancements on their part. You continue to throw this bullshit stat around.

I also doubt the credibility of that link, claiming that MS's future hinges on the success of Windows 8 and that iPad sales are causing PC sales to fade. I call bullshit on that as well. There is no one in their right mind who could possibly imagine that an iPad is capable of taking over for a PC. They are two different markets.

[aimran]

Originally Posted by steinburger1109

I also doubt the credibility of that link.

Also the fact the link comes from a website that has the word iPhone in it.

[sideways]

So you would rather Nokia just died off quietly, is that it? Sorry to break it to you dude but big companies like Nokia and microsoft do not just die overnight. A loss of 2 Billion is a bad thing, but big losses are part of the game for big companies. Sometimes they win big too.

The whole mobile landscape has changed, those statistics reflect that change. Nokia refused to be just another android OEM and took a chance on WP7, you will not see the outcome of that gamble for quite some time yet. Windows integration should be quite the selling point when it finally matures. Time will tell. I know many people who have gone over to wp7. Your unwillingness to see the merits of the platform does not rule it out for others. Deal with it.

Since you called TDS stupid I shall take it that personal insults are fair game. So have a nice day you a redacted .

Quoted for posterity:

Originally Posted by Jeven

Read Tomi Ahonen's blog - plenty of facts there about how Nokias aren't even selling in Finland, and much more besides: http://communities-dominate.blogs.com/

Sorry, if you're stupid enough to buy a Nokia Windows phone on a contract, then you really are beyond any redemption.

[Jeven]

lol, I think.

You just don't like the truth. Nokia will be gone by the end of 2013. Losses, sales figures etc. don't lie.

Business.

[Jeven]

I'll just hold on to my SG2 - at least Samsung won't be gone before my contract fini... oh. yeah, I don't have a contract.

[sYlt]

Originally Posted by Jeven

I'll just hold on to my SG2 - at least Samsung won't be gone before my contract fini... oh. yeah, I don't have a contract.

Nice hate. Too bad it will only influence you not to buy a WP/Nokia. And I am glad for that.

[steinburger1109]

None of us have anything against Android... We're just calling your dumb ass out on your WP7 hate.

[sideways]

Right, I had another look at this Tomi Ahonen character. I see walls and walls of text. He is a salesman, he makes his money off selling books and making speeches. I stopped reading when I hit the 4P's of marketing on the second page of the blog. A controversial character if I ever saw one, but that is probably part of the media image he wants to create for himself. Controversy sells better and elicits a response better.

In the future if you want to prove a point do not just point to some random blog, point to a specific article. That whole blog is a an eyesore, a massive wall of text with very little structure to link it all together. A typical approach to give what you say credibility while giving the reader every incentive not to dig too deeply. Kind of like the 101 faults article linked to earlier. Anyway since I spent a bit of time looking around the site here are a few select articles I found interesting. Maybe others will too.
http://communities-dominate.blogs.co...l-problem.html

http://communities-dominate.blogs.co...-insanity.html

He paints a grim picture but not what you say it is. You said Lumia phones were not even selling well in Finland. The only mention of Finland I could find on the blog is to say that the Lumia phones are selling well in Finland. Directly contradicting your claim. It just so happens that I am finnish (though not in any way connected with Nokia) and I can confirm that the Lumia phones have made it into the hands of many people on the streets. Not really surprising considering people here have a patriotic desire to support Nokia.

[The DarkSide]

For the record, you've never even tried the OS and your an expert??? And outdated & biased links make you correct???

And I'd suggest you remove the personal insults,...the "stupid" comment is just the start of this all, now isn't it??? Especially since I usually get a new phone every 6 months, since I luv new tech and toys.

[saratoga]

Originally Posted by Jeven

You just don't like the truth. Nokia will be gone by the end of 2013. Losses, sales figures etc. don't lie.

No way. No matter how badly they do, MS will keep propping them up until they get on their feet. Lumia is the new Xbox. They'll spend until they get traction.

[Jeven]

Originally Posted by The DarkSide

I guess we all must speak the truth then - jeven, your just hating a brand for the fuck of it. It's like when some of us here have mindlessly bashed brands and corporations simply out of stupidity. You seem to fit the stupidity bill quite well. Nokia still has a wonderful chance of making a turnaround, MS ain't going anywhere, you shure as shit aren't the spokesman for Finland, (or Hungary for that matter), and you can take your squabbling twunt talk of a no contract phone professing your superiority and place it ever so gently in you vag.

Now, stop talking uneducated shit,...

And, for the record, you've never even tried the OS and your an expert??? OMG, you really are an idiot.

PS: is it my imagination, or are we getting more and more of these mentally superior closed minded cretins lately or what. This site is like a family, we all agree & disagree on a regular basis. But, we all usually end up working it out in the end. I mean, is the mutescream in disguise??? WTF???

You know, I think I'm going to take a break from the site for awhile - seems hard heads like to gravitate towards me and argue. I'm getting to old for this shit,...I can't beat the world.

Such vitriol aimed at me for speaking the truth about Nokia, their decline
and imminent failure.

The Dark Side - you gravitated towards me, you added your 2c towards this thread. For all I know you may be a perfectly nice guy. I dismiss the fanboi from Finland as irrelevant.

But you bought a Nokia, Windows phone on a contract. How stupid and uneducated was that? Very. A Blackberry Playbook would be more defensible.

I predict you won't be using that phone in 6 months, you'll have realised how crap it was and moved on to something else.

Microsoft may buy Nokia soon, if not for their worthless phone model then at least for their patents.

Originally Posted by sideways

Right, I had another look at this Tomi Ahonen character. I see walls and walls of text. He is a salesman, he makes his money off selling books and making speeches. I stopped reading when I hit the 4P's of marketing on the second page of the blog. A controversial character if I ever saw one, but that is probably part of the media image he wants to create for himself. Controversy sells better and elicits a response better.

In the future if you want to prove a point do not just point to some random blog, point to a specific article. That whole blog is a an eyesore, a massive wall of text with very little structure to link it all together. A typical approach to give what you say credibility while giving the reader every incentive not to dig too deeply. Kind of like the 101 faults article linked to earlier. Anyway since I spent a bit of time looking around the site here are a few select articles I found interesting. Maybe others will too.
http://communities-dominate.blogs.co...l-problem.html

http://communities-dominate.blogs.co...-insanity.html

He paints a grim picture but not what you say it is. You said Lumia phones were not even selling well in Finland. The only mention of Finland I could find on the blog is to say that the Lumia phones are selling well in Finland. Directly contradicting your claim. It just so happens that I am finnish (though not in any way connected with Nokia) and I can confirm that the Lumia phones have made it into the hands of many people on the streets. Not really surprising considering people here have a patriotic desire to support Nokia.

Lumias really aren't selling well in Finland - or anywhere else in the world - look at the sales figures.

When the brand is toxic in its home country, shuts down all its European factories, then you know something is seriously wrong.

Operators Won’t Sell Nokia Lumias–Even in Finland!

From Communities Dominate Brands: Disappointed Buyer = Returned Lumia = Salespeople Avoid = Growing Nokia Retail Problem:

MTV3 the Finnish TV broadcaster and news service ran a secret test of the Finnish handset retailers in the Helsinki and Tampere regions the two largest cities of Finland. They sampled two stores from each of the three mobile carriers/operators, and two stores from the two largest independent phone resellers. The MTV3 journalists pretended to be normal consumers and visited ten stores and every time asked to see Nokia Lumia smartphones. In six out of ten stores, the sales people showed only rival phones Androids mostly by Samsung when the consumer asked for Nokia Lumia !!! In another two cases the sales person came with several phones rather than just the Lumia and offered immediately a series of handsets to compare. Only in two cases out of ten, did the sales person show a Lumia on first request. Every store had the Lumia on display and in stock and the news story makes the point, that in most stores Lumia had the biggest sales displays at prominent places.

Tomi Ahonen, as usual, is spot on in his analysis of Nokia. This passage is buried pretty deep into his several thousand word posting, but it pretty much summarizes how Nokia is doing in their transition to a Windows Phone device manufacturer–namely, not good.
If they’re having that much trouble getting the operator stores to sell Nokia Lumia phones in Finland, where they’ve historically had over 85% of the the market, imagine how bad it is elsewhere."


"Nokia smartphone sales are collapsing globally and my projection for year-end is in the low single digits now, say 4% or so. I will do a better full-year projection for Nokia once I have had to digest these numbers a bit, and I see the other results from the rivals. But Nokia is dying before our eyes. They had 29% market share with Elop in charge, when smartphone sales were growing strongly and Nokia's smartphones were profitable. Then Elop did his Elop Effect and followed that up with numerous further management blunders. Today Nokia's market share is 7% and falling, with the smarthpone unit reporting record losses. This is not a way to build a third ecosystem haha. Oh, and to the Nokia Shareholders' Meeting - please fire the Microsoft Muppet CEO now, while there still exists a Nokia to speak of, before he destroys what is left of it"

An illuminating read from the Guardian, highlighting the 800s many failures. they couldn't even sell this phone on contract by bundling in an Xbox 360, or some of those 'lovely' Beat headphones. People read this then didn't buy:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology...ia-800-goodbye

[sideways]

Aah it seems his blog does have some structure after all. The walls of text on the main page are actually previews of the real articles. My bad for not picking up on that.

He said the lumia phones are not selling well in Finland. It shows up on the fourth page, or as a part of the in depth article linked to from the first page. You will have to forgive me for not digging that far. The first page alone has 32 000 words on it.

I was also right though. This is from a more recent wall of text. It does say the lumia is selling well in Finland.

UPDATE 4 May 2012 - a person who left 2 comments on this blog, Asko, says he was present at the Shareholders' Meeting, and reports that Elop had spoken about the lack of country success of Lumia, saying that only in one country, Finland, was the Lumia series selling well, and in only one other country, the USA, was the Lumia series selling reasonably. His evidence of that USA performance, was citing Amazon sales rankings.

I need to point out a few critical facts about this. One, Elop admits that most countries where Lumia has launched, are performing poorly! Secondly, with Nokia headquartered in Finland, almost any phone released by Nokia will sell well there, so it is not a strong sign that Lumia might sell well in any other markets.

Regardless of how the Lumia fares nokias future does not rest on any single device. You were the one that started this whole back and forth with your over the top Nokia and Microsoft bashing. You were then were unwilling to back up your arguments with anything more substantial than smokescreens of words. Meh.

You can call me a fanboi if you like, but then I would have to point out that you have the redacted.

[skip252]

@Jeven, please reference your source properly in post# 9.

Originally Posted by Jeven

From another site re Windows phones:

isn't sufficient. If you're going to use someones words you have to give them credit for their work. See the link provided on how to do it so your post meets forum guidelines. If this isn't done promptly it will have to be removed.

To everyone posting both the direct and oblique insults that started after the "stupid" remark let me make one thing clear. No more.

That the remark shouldn't have been phrased that way or made at all is obvious. There's no place for personal insults in a reasoned discussion. It's possible to disagree with an idea without making it personal. Those that can't find a way to do that aren't allowed to continue posting here. But...

There's no way any staff member here has the time or interest to read and evaluate every post here for potential flamebait. If you feel a post goes outside the concept of disagreeing with the idea and is personally insulting hit the "Report" button that's part of every post here.

The sooner the report is made, the better the results will be. It's much easier to deal with a single inappropriate post and it's author than try to clean up the mess this has become.

[sideways]

Fair enough, I redacted the offending lines.

[steinburger1109]

Originally Posted by Jeven

Such vitriol aimed at me for speaking the truth about Nokia, their decline
and imminent failure.

The Dark Side - you gravitated towards me, you added your 2c towards this thread. For all I know you may be a perfectly nice guy. I dismiss the fanboi from Finland as irrelevant.

But you bought a Nokia, Windows phone on a contract. How stupid and uneducated was that? Very. A Blackberry Playbook would be more defensible.

I predict you won't be using that phone in 6 months, you'll have realised how crap it was and moved on to something else.

Lumias really aren't selling well in Finland - or anywhere else in the world - look at the sales figures.

When the brand is toxic in its home country, shuts down all its European factories, then you know something is seriously wrong.

Operators Won’t Sell Nokia Lumias–Even in Finland!

From Communities Dominate Brands: Disappointed Buyer = Returned Lumia = Salespeople Avoid = Growing Nokia Retail Problem:

MTV3 the Finnish TV broadcaster and news service ran a secret test of the Finnish handset retailers in the Helsinki and Tampere regions the two largest cities of Finland. They sampled two stores from each of the three mobile carriers/operators, and two stores from the two largest independent phone resellers. The MTV3 journalists pretended to be normal consumers and visited ten stores and every time asked to see Nokia Lumia smartphones. In six out of ten stores, the sales people showed only rival phones Androids mostly by Samsung when the consumer asked for Nokia Lumia !!! In another two cases the sales person came with several phones rather than just the Lumia and offered immediately a series of handsets to compare. Only in two cases out of ten, did the sales person show a Lumia on first request. Every store had the Lumia on display and in stock and the news story makes the point, that in most stores Lumia had the biggest sales displays at prominent places.

Tomi Ahonen, as usual, is spot on in his analysis of Nokia. This passage is buried pretty deep into his several thousand word posting, but it pretty much summarizes how Nokia is doing in their transition to a Windows Phone device manufacturer–namely, not good.
If they’re having that much trouble getting the operator stores to sell Nokia Lumia phones in Finland, where they’ve historically had over 85% of the the market, imagine how bad it is elsewhere."


"Nokia smartphone sales are collapsing globally and my projection for year-end is in the low single digits now, say 4% or so. I will do a better full-year projection for Nokia once I have had to digest these numbers a bit, and I see the other results from the rivals. But Nokia is dying before our eyes. They had 29% market share with Elop in charge, when smartphone sales were growing strongly and Nokia's smartphones were profitable. Then Elop did his Elop Effect and followed that up with numerous further management blunders. Today Nokia's market share is 7% and falling, with the smarthpone unit reporting record losses. This is not a way to build a third ecosystem haha. Oh, and to the Nokia Shareholders' Meeting - please fire the Microsoft Muppet CEO now, while there still exists a Nokia to speak of, before he destroys what is left of it"

An illuminating read from the Guardian, highlighting the 800s many failures. they couldn't even sell this phone on contract by bundling in an Xbox 360, or some of those 'lovely' Beat headphones. People read this then didn't buy:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology...ia-800-goodbye

1) TDS =/= fanboi, and is not from Finland.

2) He may very well have a new phone in 6 months, but that's just what he does. He liked his Motorola Atrix and his iPhones, but he just likes trying the new ones.

Convenient how simple it is to leave out new, accurate information that completely debunks what you're saying, isn't it?

Your link from the Guardian is someone who is obviously trying actively to dislike the system or is just completely inept when it comes to using technology. (let's also keep in mind that he's talking about the Lumia 800...) Here's why:

• He spends most of the post just moaning about how it doesn't make him want to diddle it all the time with no specifics whatsoever.
• When he finally does get to specifics, he moans first about that there are some devices with battery issues.
• Getting down to actual issues, he next takes issue with Zune. He complains that it is not user friendly. Of all the bad things you can call Zune, not user friendly is not one of them. This is where I assume he's trying to dislike it. Anyone with the vaguest amount of experience with touch screen media players should be capable of navigating and using the Zune UI with no issues.
• His complaint about the Twitter app is that he doesn't know other people's screen names.
• He "doesn't trust Bing." Really? I use Google over Bing to, but the fact that if I wanted to voice search and it went to Bing instead of Google wouldn't bother me at all.

Four specific problems, one that is standard to technology, one that is him being a half-wit or an anti-Windows hater, one that is him not being smart enough to learn names rather than pictures, and one that is him fishing for a reason to dislike the browser. All on a device that is NOT the Lumia 900 and that you are extrapolating to try to make it relevant to your argument here.

In fact, you used this to claim that people read it and as a result didn't buy a 900. If you cared to read any of the comments, about half of them are people surprised that the review is so poor or pointing out the fact that its only comparison is the an iPhone, and the other half are people saying that they have an exact opposite opinion, and that they love their Lumia.

And lastly, whoever this Tomi Ahonen guy is, it's fairly obvious that he doesn't really know much at all about what he's saying. He's a fear-monger. He's like Fox News or Harold Camping. Both of which I either avoid like the plague or listen to and then laugh my A$$ off.