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Old 09-12-2012, 05:23 PM
a1shot a1shot is offline
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Default Questions About Card Classes And Rockbox Features (Split From The Clip Zip Review)

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Originally Posted by razorblader View Post
Maybe you didn't read what I posted before or didn't understand that I wasn't spouting theories like you did. Read the whole thread from the beginning then you'll realize that I already stated that I got a 64GB SDXC card working with the Fuze and Clip+ and could access all the files (about 5260) with the OF and Rockbox.
Stumbled on to this post. I actually had the same question regarding 32 GB SDHC class 10 (Samsung) and never thought that it can even take 64 GB card in (assuming 32 was the limit). Can you please tell me if class matters to the Fuze Player (I have exact same firmware of the OF player, not yet interested in rockbox...but since i want to have around 5 000 tracks per 30 GB, would you recommend to?) Also, which class is ok for the Fuze? I understand class 10 is good, but not necessarily needed?

Last edited by a1shot; 09-12-2012 at 05:40 PM.
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  #2  
Old 09-12-2012, 05:31 PM
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I would absolutely recommend going to rockbox, i didn't for a long time, but could NEVER even think about using stock firmware anymore. And when u even fill those 16gb cards up rockbox is quicker for its version of 'database refresh', so i would imagine for a 32-64gb card rock box a must.
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Old 09-12-2012, 06:48 PM
skip252 skip252 is offline
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If you have 5000 files per 30 GB and go to the larger card Rockbox will be the only way to get them all recognized. The sandisk firmware has a limit of ~8000 files. The actual amount varies according to your file/folder structure. If your folders are deeply nested it will be less. I read where one person could only get ~5000 files recognized due to the complexity of their folder structure.

Rockbox doesn't have that limitation. One of the Rockbox developers, saratoga, posted what the file limit in Rockbox is here http://www.anythingbutipod.com/forum...53&postcount=2
The number of files recognized can be changed in the Rockbox settings under General Settings=>System=>Limits.

I'm a bit more conservative in recommending Rockbox. It works well for me but there is a learning curve that gets in the way of some enjoying their player. More of what I think about whether or not to install Rockbox is here
http://www.anythingbutipod.com/forum...8&postcount=14

Your question on SD card class was answered in post # 5 of this thread. http://www.anythingbutipod.com/forum...ad.php?t=70330
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Old 09-12-2012, 06:55 PM
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I agree with skip252 about learning curve with rockbox, at first i was like wtf is this, but somethings are worth persevering with and in this case this is one of those things.

I recently bought the iaudio 9, it was criticized for its awful UI (which it is bad and unintuitive), however i committed to learning its weird ways and now couldn't be happier (and make far far fewer mistakes when navigating).

Bottom line, some learning curves are worth the long lasting benefits, and in rockbox case this is definitely so. After all yer not just gaining greater file number recognition but a whole heap of other tweaks and uses not in stock firmware which enhance the listening experience.
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Old 09-13-2012, 04:53 AM
a1shot a1shot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceBanner View Post
I agree with skip252 about learning curve with rockbox, at first i was like wtf is this, but somethings are worth persevering with and in this case this is one of those things.

I recently bought the iaudio 9, it was criticized for its awful UI (which it is bad and unintuitive), however i committed to learning its weird ways and now couldn't be happier (and make far far fewer mistakes when navigating).

Bottom line, some learning curves are worth the long lasting benefits, and in rockbox case this is definitely so. After all yer not just gaining greater file number recognition but a whole heap of other tweaks and uses not in stock firmware which enhance the listening experience.
Thanx for the tips, i guess it is worth to try. Although, anything i should put much attention to when changing the firmware? About 5000 files - where i am not sure if i will be able to stock more than 8000 files...But i am not sure how to calculate about the file paths as well, since i have a library-type of folders like (Music->Archive-> English->E->Eminem->Album 1999-> Song.mp3) i assume it would allow less with the usual OF ...but how much less? (does each folder in this case count as a file as well? or is it more complex).

About the tweaks, which ones are the sure shot for going to rockbox? (Just curious to see if indeed, i need to do it now) I'll read more on rockbox as well to get my own impression
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Old 09-13-2012, 10:30 AM
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AFAIK there's no hard and fast way to know how many files the sandisk firmware will recognize. I've read other post where besides folder/ files structure album art, long comments, use of tags the firmware doesn't use, phase of the moon, has affected how many files get recognized. It's probably best to look at what what tags the sandisk firmware uses and organize your files using a similar structure.

When I have used the sandisk firmware I went with
Code:
Artist\Album\track# - Title
The only tags I used were Artist, Album, Genre. I didn't embed the album art, I just had a per folder .jpg named "folder.jpg". None of the cards I used held enough files to hit the limit so I can't say how well that works to maximize the number of files recognized.

The biggest tweak in preparing for Rockbox occurs between your ears. It's hard to describe how different it is. Reading the manual through Browsing and Playing helps. It still doesn't get you ready for just how different the experience can be.

The number of menus, knowing what can be done in which screen, learning how to use the Context menu, using the virtual keyboard and any number of other things can make it confusing and frustrating. Or it can be incredibly liberating.

When's the last time you completely rearranged your folder/file structure on a DAP? Then decided you preferred to make a playlist that included included files from a particular genre, date and rating? Doing those things on a Rockboxed player can be slow going and include a lot of button pushes but it can be done.

The array of choices can be intimidating. You don't have to tweak everything but being able to makes some feel they should. I've found that simpler is usually better in the early part. Add the font pack, a theme or two and fiddle with it. More ideas and "I'd like to be able to..." will come to you. If you haven't frustrated yourself by over thinking relatively simple concepts making those changes should be easier.

Being willing to help yourself before asking questions helps tremendously. Saying "I want to do this" without saying " I have tried this, this and this to try to accomplish this goal. None of that worked, can someone suggest a different way?" doesn't work very well.

Also expecting Rockbox to follow the conventions of the sandisk firmware will usually get you disappointed. The sandisk firmware doesn't do a fraction of what Rockbox does so it uses the limited number of buttons differently. The OF can assign a single function to a button where Rockbox will frequently make the results from a press vs a long press completely different.

The lack of single function buttons has caused several people I've helped install Rockbox remove it. They want a Play All button and when they find they need to do that by inserting the files or folder into a playlist or playing a saved playlist they just give up. It's not hard to do blind imo but it's more steps than a single button push so it's not for them.

I'd be sure to follow the directions for installation from the manual and use the automated installer. A new one was issued recently and when I've tried it I liked the look and feel better than the older one. It has a cleaner look and I think it should be less confusing for the new user.

If you have more Rockbox related questions be sure to post them in the Rockbox subforum. It's easier to keep track of them there and Rockbox users are more likely to see them. You may even find the answer to your question if you search there first. That's usually easier than posting a question and waiting.
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  #7  
Old 09-13-2012, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a1shot View Post
About the tweaks, which ones are the sure shot for going to rockbox? (Just curious to see if indeed, i need to do it now) I'll read more on rockbox as well to get my own impression
The tweaks i enjoy are as follows:

1) Greater SQ, having more indepth EQ band to fiddle, but more importantly a simple increase/decrease Bass and Treble feature.
2) The ability to create shortcuts, so that when at the Now Playing Screen can +/- Bass or Treble quickly without having to navigate heaps of sub menus
3) Loved having Crossfade, some find it gimicky but i like it.
4) The ability to +/- Balance, just pushing audio slightly more to one channel than the other usually resulted in me hearing the music more central.
5) Having control of the font size, this made for better browsing/navigation overall.
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  #8  
Old 09-13-2012, 03:44 PM
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---This has taken a different turn from the CZ review so I've moved them to the Rockbox subforum---

To be clear, the sound quality in Rockbox and the OF are the same. You can tweak the sound quality in ways using Rockbox that aren't available in the sandisk firmware but the base sound quality itself is the same.
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Old 09-13-2012, 06:00 PM
a1shot a1shot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceBanner View Post
The tweaks i enjoy are as follows:

1) Greater SQ, having more indepth EQ band to fiddle, but more importantly a simple increase/decrease Bass and Treble feature.
2) The ability to create shortcuts, so that when at the Now Playing Screen can +/- Bass or Treble quickly without having to navigate heaps of sub menus
3) Loved having Crossfade, some find it gimicky but i like it.
4) The ability to +/- Balance, just pushing audio slightly more to one channel than the other usually resulted in me hearing the music more central.
5) Having control of the font size, this made for better browsing/navigation overall.
#2 sure sounds neat. But there is no player\firmware except ipod's that can search for a track by part of the name, artist, filename, is it? I did not seem to find this in the list of features of Rockbox.
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Old 09-13-2012, 08:23 PM
saratoga saratoga is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a1shot View Post
But there is no player\firmware except ipod's that can search for a track by part of the name, artist, filename, is it? I did not seem to find this in the list of features of Rockbox.
You're asking for an option to type in names on a Clip? Wouldn't that be ten or fifteen times slower than just browsing for a the file?
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Old 09-13-2012, 11:32 PM
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I have to say, i have never found a search feature necessary. But... if we're taking clips to 72gb capacities perhaps its not a bad idea now? Or at least a zippy navigation with letters of the alphabet displayed on the side or summin.
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  #12  
Old 09-14-2012, 06:22 AM
skip252 skip252 is offline
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The search function already exists. I don't see anything about it in the manual but it's there. You can find it with, Main Menu=>Database=>Search...
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Old 09-14-2012, 06:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skip252 View Post
The search function already exists. I don't see anything about it in the manual but it's there. You can find it with, Main Menu=>Database=>Search...
I didn't know this. It is there...but I think saratoga's point is correct, it would take much longer to type in a search term than it would to just browse for what you were looking for.

An alphabet shortcut could be useful, however...something like the Zip's OF.
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Old 09-14-2012, 06:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin the Martian View Post
An alphabet shortcut could be useful, however...something like the Zip's OF.
Rockbox already has browsing by letter shortcuts.
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Old 09-14-2012, 06:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigmatic View Post
Rockbox already has browsing by letter shortcuts.
And how would one do this? I'm not seeing it in the likely locations in the manual...http://download.rockbox.org/daily/ma...-buildap2.html

Not really a big deal for me as I only have a 16GB card in mine, since it's not my primary player....but it could be helpful for those with 64GB cards.
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Old 09-14-2012, 06:57 AM
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I don't think you've used the feature if you think it's hard to use. A alpha only search like the one you're thinking about would limit the current search tremendously. That letter on the side thing might be spiffy for the OF but it would cut back on what's possible in Rockbox.

With a custom keyboard and properly tagged files the current Database search function kicks the crap out of a alphabet based search. Partial strings by Artist, Album Artist, Artist, Title, Album by year, Filename, Score, User Rating and Comment all work. You don't need to type the complete search string.

The Database was recently reworked. Now you can easily select only the folders you want to scan. It's builds much quicker now. There were some other fixes put in around that time. I didn't find it very useful before. It's much better now.

I can't find it in the manual either. I just was checking the various menus at some time in the past and found it that way.
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Old 09-14-2012, 07:04 AM
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Quote:
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And how would one do this?
Database->A to Z...
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Old 09-14-2012, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skip252 View Post
I don't think you've used the feature if you think it's hard to use. A alpha only search like the one you're thinking about would limit the current search tremendously. That letter on the side thing might be spiffy for the OF but it would cut back on what's possible in Rockbox.

With a custom keyboard and properly tagged files the current Database search function kicks the crap out of a alphabet based search. Partial strings by Artist, Album Artist, Artist, Title, Album by year, Filename, Score, User Rating and Comment all work. You don't need to type the complete search string.
I guess it isn't too bad, now that I see that you don't have to type the whole thing in. It doesn't save me any time compared to just scrolling, with the amount of files I have on my player (about 14GB) , but I can see where it would be useful for larger libraries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigmatic View Post
Database->A to Z...
Never noticed that before....up until a few moments ago I hadn't ever scrolled past "album" in that menu....lol.
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Old 09-14-2012, 12:41 PM
a1shot a1shot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skip252 View Post
I don't think you've used the feature if you think it's hard to use. A alpha only search like the one you're thinking about would limit the current search tremendously. That letter on the side thing might be spiffy for the OF but it would cut back on what's possible in Rockbox.

With a custom keyboard and properly tagged files the current Database search function kicks the crap out of a alphabet based search. Partial strings by Artist, Album Artist, Artist, Title, Album by year, Filename, Score, User Rating and Comment all work. You don't need to type the complete search string.

The Database was recently reworked. Now you can easily select only the folders you want to scan. It's builds much quicker now. There were some other fixes put in around that time. I didn't find it very useful before. It's much better now.

I can't find it in the manual either. I just was checking the various menus at some time in the past and found it that way.
Well, this is awesome then! I think ipods have search, you do enter by letter. And i do need this feature because the music is selective, and i may have 1 track from one artist, and if i suddenly have the urge to listen to and some how remember the name of the track, not the artist, searching is the only way. I have 10 GB now so i manage, but with larger capacities i would imagine the search feature useful. Thanx for the support, once i have the time, ill rockbox the player
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Old 09-14-2012, 04:32 PM
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Ahhh.... one more disciple welcomed into the church of box.
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