Zen V Plus Track Order

[crushedlizard]

Hi, my girlfriend bought a pink V Plus recently and it works well, for the most part. Some albums, for no reason at all, won't sort by ID3 track# tag; it sorts them alphabetically!?
The tracks in question work fine on my PC and Samsung K3.

Has anyone else experienced this? Is it a known bug? How come some albums are sorted by track# and some by name?
When you click on the file info, all the tracks show up as "#0" yet they are tagged correctly and work on other players/hardware.

I've re-tagged, and re-tagged, endlessly and it's made no difference. I even altered the numbers (1 - 01 - 001 etc) yet nothing works.
I've even deleted the ID3 v1, and ID3 2.x in case one was affecting the other.

Any suggestions?

Thanks

[CrowdAds]

[drspark61]

Did the music come from iTunes? I know from experience that MP3s ripped by iTunes often have problems with track order when played on the Zen. It's because iTunes has a tag field that identifies each track as "1 of 10" or "2 of 12", etc. I had to download and install iTunes (ick!) to clean up that field so it only showed the track number and not the total number of tracks on the CD. I think you might be able to do that with ID3Tag-It or Media Monkey and avoid installing iTunes. I'm away from home computer right now so I can't confirm it.

[crushedlizard]

Thanks, I use ID3 TagIT v3 though. I'm sure some files wok fine on the Zen V Plus, but I'll give that 1/12, 2/12... idea a go. I'm sure I have other songs on there that have the 1/12 and it recognises them so I'm not so sure removing the total (the "/12" bit) will resolve it.

It's weird though - how come other mp3 players and my PC see the tags fine but Zen decides to ignore them?

[drspark61]

I think Creative players (or at least the Zen V) are picky about file formats. I have some music ripped by a friend who used BladeEnc. Those MP3s work fine on my computer and played on my old Sansa. But my Zen refuses to play one or two songs from every one of those albums. I get a message saying they are in an "unsupported format." Go figure. Thankfully most of music collection has been ripped with Exact Audio Copy, and I have no problems at all.

[c.coyle]

Here's the "problem" from my standpoint:

On my Zen V Plus, as far as I can see, the default tag it reads, once you have chosen to play an entire album, is the "title" tag. My Zen doesn't appear to be reading the "track tag". So, the Zen V+ plays the files in alphabetical, not track #, order.

For example, if the title tag and track number tag are respectively . . .

Statesboro Blues, 01/12
Trouble No More, 02/12
Don't Keep Me Wondering, 03/12
In Memory of Elizabeth Reed, 04/12
One Way Out, 05/12

. . . the Zen V Plus plays them in this order

Don't Keep Me Wondering, 03/12
In Memory of Elizabeth Reed, 04/12
One Way Out, 05/12
Statesboro Blues, 01/12
Trouble No More, 02/12

This is not a big problem, since the easy workaround is start the "title" tag with a number, such as . . .

01 Statesboro Blues, 01/12
02 Trouble No More, 02/12
03 Don't Keep Me Wondering, 03/12
04 In Memory of Elizabeth Reed, 04/12
05 One Way Out, 05/12

Nevertheless, it seems that I should be able to configure the Zen V plus to read track number tags first. If I can't configure it, it should be the default. Isn't that why we have track number tags in the first place?

Am I missing something simple?

P.S. I use MP3tag 2.41, which writes "IDv2.3 (ID3v1 ID3v2.3)"

[BobbyRS]

Try removing the /# from the track#.

01/12 -> 01

[c.coyle]

Originally Posted by BobbyRS

Try removing the /# from the track#.

01/12 -> 01

No luck. Still alphabetical sort on "title" tag. It would be nice if Creative would document this in the user guide. I guess this is a firmware bug.

Still, no big deal given the easy workaround.

In any event, thanks for the suggestion.

[BobbyRS]

The Zen V does and is supposed to sort by track number of the album. See this thread for more info. Have you tried deleting an album on the Zen V first, then copy over the same files with the corrected tags to see if they display correctly then? Just in case it isn't updating the existing files on the Zen.

In any event, thanks for the suggestion.

No problem.

[c.coyle]

Originally Posted by BobbyRS

. . . Have you tried deleting an album on the Zen V first, then copy over the same files with the corrected tags to see if they display correctly then? Just in case it isn't updating the existing files on the Zen. . . .

Yup. Definitely got the updated files on the Zen. No luck. Probably something simple I'm overlooking.

Hey, it's working with the workaround, so I'm happy.

[BobbyRS]

Hey, it's working with the workaround, so I'm happy.

It wouls still be nice to know why it is working this way, but as long as you are still happy.....

[c.coyle]

Originally Posted by BobbyRS

It wouls still be nice to know why it is working this way, but as long as you are still happy.....

I'll fool around with it when I have some time. My grandma used to always say "there's more than one way to tag an mp3."

[BobbyRS]

My Grandma would say.... what hell is an MP3????

[c.coyle]

My grandma was a geek, God rest her soul. That's her on the left, 1956. (If this is an inappropriate waste of bandwidth, trash this post)

[BobbyRS]

Nah, that's too cool. Nice photo!

[c.coyle]

Following up on my Zen V+ not reading the "Track" tag, but defaulting to the "Title" tag and therefore playing albums in alphabetical order, I discovered that the "View Details" screen from "Now Playing" isn't displaying the "Track" number correctly. Every single song in an album, regardless of the "Track" tag's content, displays as "Track: #0".

For example, this song contains the following tags, ID3v2.3 (ID3v1 ID3V2.3):

ALBUM: Tied & True

ARTIST: Detroit Cobras

TITLE: 12 On A Monday

TRACK: 12/13

But the "View Details" screen shows the following. Note the "Track #0". This is the same for every song on the album, regardless of the content of the "Track" tag. It stands to reason that if the player sees every track as "#0", the "Track" tag is going to be useless in setting the play order. This has to be a firmware problem:

[BobbyRS]

Yeah, could be. Have you tried reloading the firmware yet? You sure the tag info is saving correctly? I would also make sure you are using id3v2.3 as well.

[c.coyle]

Originally Posted by BobbyRS

Yeah, could be. Have you tried reloading the firmware yet? You sure the tag info is saving correctly? I would also make sure you are using id3v2.3 as well.

The tags are ID3v2.3 (ID3v1 ID3V2.3), written with MP3Tag v. 2.41.

It shows the latest firmware, 1.32.01, already installed, but I'll do a reinstall and see what happens. And hope I don't brick it.

UPDATE: Firmware reinstall made no difference. This is starting to annoy me. I have made figuring this out my mission.

[BobbyRS]

Although I don't have a Zen V, I've never had this issue before while working with MP3Tag (same version).

This is starting to annoy me. I have made figuring this out my mission.

I like your determination! Do you have another DAP to try out and see if the tags are read correctly or not? Also, maybe try tagging with a different program (maybe WMP) instead to see if that effects anything.

[ZenChick]

Make absolutely sure your Track tags are NOT in the xx/yy format! Most DAPs have a problem with this format. The Track tags should be simply in the xx format only.

Getting MP3Tag to do this can be tricky. You can verify your tags are in the correct format using MP3TagTools, as it will list out your entire library in one go.

If you continue to have problems, then my recommendation is to simply strip all ID3v2 information from your files. Be sure the ID3v1 information is accurate, then recreate the v2 tags from the v1 information (be aware that ID3v1 have character limits in its fields, so long titles and names may be truncated. Simply fill in the missing characters after recreating the v2 tags).

[BobbyRS]

be aware that ID3v1 have character limits in its fields

Yeah, if I'm not mistaken, it is 30 characters.