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Old 04-22-2007, 12:04 AM
moto moto is offline
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Default question about charging

so after a quick research it seems like the zen v plus needs to recognize the power source to "accept" the connection and allow itself to get charged.. does this mean that car chargers and wall chargers won't work at all? i read one report that says the zen v stopped charging through the wall charger after a firmware update. so if it's the firmware that's causing this, are there any hacks/mods available to fix this? if not, which version of firmware allows charging through any power source?
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  #2  
Old 04-22-2007, 11:49 AM
maldido gringo maldido gringo is offline
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I'm using Creative Unioversal Power Adapter for Zen: http://www.creative.com/products/pro...&product=14722
It's now about 48 hours I got it plugged to my Zen V plus but no joy.

I think you better not to try any hack or mod not provided by creative itself, since then your warranty expires.

The V unit proved to be very delicate in this regard, so if you are facing problems with your unit I advice you to send it back to creative assistance.

Also firmware downgrade I'm not sure is a good option, I'll bet somewhere the unit keeps track of that and could simply stop working. Be sure to check the download agreement if such operation would void the warranty.

Confused? Welcome in DRM world: only trusted providers shall access your machine and if you try to break rules machine refuse to work.

Funny side is that in order to run the check machines need power, so what happen when machine is a mobile unit that completely ran out of power?

That's a very Escheresque situation!

=D
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Old 04-22-2007, 12:36 PM
moto moto is offline
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well that's just stupid.. really really stupid. i don't really see the point in shutting off the incoming power supply. if they wanna block incoming data, i guess i can see some point in that, but why power too??
i'm gonna ask creative about the zen v and car/wall chargers and see what they have to say.
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Old 04-22-2007, 03:44 PM
maldido gringo maldido gringo is offline
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Well, at least that's my assumption, fact is they claim it's a DRM enhanced device but they do not provide great detail in that.

Understanding what DRM deeply means takes a technician that bothered to read specifications and cookbooks about, for that I undersood of the matter the very core of DRM is control of the information flow

Nowadays you accomplish that via software, you make statements and put conditions, but since it's a language you can make hacks to straightly hit the points you mind to overriding the flow itself.

If you manage to control the flow via the hardware hacks are less easy to perform, and that's should be an explanation for the USB issue: creative want to be sure that you only jack-in trusted plugs in their machines, perhaps for MTP compliantcy reasons.

That makes a certain sense, trusted sources in order to detect an hack attempt may avoid or simply monitor the traffic on a particular port.

But hardware control may have drawbacks: you can physically reset a machine after a SW stall, whyle an hardware stop depending on its level may prove difficlut to restart.

Getting informations from creative on this matter would be great!

I'll try to get my own infos, but I'll deal with the Italian branch, I think they will just collect my unit and send it to the lab (One for the whole Europe I suppose).

Anyway I'll keep the forum informed about any info that could be of any help for other creative consumers.
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Old 04-22-2007, 03:54 PM
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ZenChick ZenChick is offline
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While I hate DRM as much as the next listener, I think you are attributing too much power to it. In order for DRM to even work, a file (a song or a video, let's say) has to be encrypted. In order to decrypt the file, a key is required (the DRM license). Without the key, the file is just useless gibberish to the host device.

All MTP does is provide an automated means of syncronizing the necessary DRM keys with the files that require them in an automated way so that the user isn't left trying to figure out that mess himself. UMS doesn't have this capability, which is why MTP is highly preferred for devices capable of playing DRM'd files. On UMS devices that even support DRM playback, this function is left to the syncing software, so no drag-and-drop is possible for these files.

And that's all MTP is. It's not the Mark of the Beast; it's simply an improvement on existing transport protocols designed to streamline the ugly mess that DRM key management would be otherwise. Power management is not an MTP function whatsoever.
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Old 04-22-2007, 05:40 PM
maldido gringo maldido gringo is offline
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Hem, I'm not picking on MTP, fact is if tomorrow MS decides only your own DRM files should be played on your own DRM units MTP will take care of that. I'm not claiming it will, but it's designed around that purpose.

I never wrote neither meant that MTP takes care of power charging, it works on a completely different and higer level.

Fact is if you have both communication and charging on the same phisical port and you don't want someone exploiting this feature for unwanted purpouses you need the unit to recognize and agree the incoming jack to plug in.

That's not DRM spec, but should be collateral to it: think of sniffing the communication beetwen two DRM ports, you don't want that to happen, hence you need hardware properly designed and the OS hiding that communication layer, you have MTP and its SDK to take care of that, and that's supposed to be your only interface to it.

I'm not saying it's evily designed or something, simply once it become standard if they decide you can't play your DRM files (or if they starts to play bad...) there'll be nothing for you to do about.
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