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  #301  
Old 04-19-2008, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by ZenChick View Post
When you "blow out the ZVM", do you do a full Disk Format followed by a Disk Cleanup - both from Recovery Mode?
Nope, just delete all music and re-sync.

However, I tried something new and 2 problems went away. I opened Creative Explorer and deleted all music, then simply dragged and dropped all 3500+ songs at one time. No issues with any art or anything else, expect one Nickleback song, that it said exceeded the capabilities of the player. After it was done, I synced that 1 song with Media Monkey and all is well.

The 2nd issue that went away is one with Playlists. A playlist created in Media Monkey then synced to the ZVM would not allow a song to be in more than 1 playlist. It would appear only in the most recently synced playlist and drop from any others.

In Creative Explorer I created a new playlist then again, dragged and dropped all songs (out of the playlist in Media Monkey this time) and the playlists are in tact. Fixing that in and of itself is worth this whole ordeal.

I guess my fondness for Media Monkey just dwindled quite a bit. Another major issue I discovered a while back is when ripping, if you use MM's track volume leveling, the song has crackles and pops. I still have one CD I need to rip again because it's not playable in that condition.
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  #302  
Old 04-22-2008, 04:21 AM
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Gah! Behaviour like that would have me uninstalling MM in a heartbeat!

I always use applications dedicated specifically to ripping CDs, such as Exact Audio Copy (EAC), which does an absolutely superb job. It's a lot slower than other rippers, but that's because it's a secure ripper. Most ripping utilities, if they encounter a disk error, will simply blast through it, and the result may be an audible glitch or pop in the music. EAC will slow down and try to work through the error, taking a number of samples until it can get more than one to match. It's not guaranteed to eliminate errors, but at least if one occurs that it can't correct, it'll let you know.

For normalizing, I use MP3 Gain. It's another wonderful freeware application that normalizes your MP3s non-destructively - meaning, you can easily undo changes it makes. It has a number of different normalizing options, including the ability to examine an entire album and normalize each track so that the album's average volume is normalized while still preserving level differences between the different tracks.
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  #303  
Old 04-24-2008, 09:11 AM
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I'm almost ready to agree with you ZC. I thought I really liked it as it worked well, until I started digging into this art issue, the play list issue and now, I'm discovering a TAG issue but I can't pin it on MM just yet. I found several genre's had been molested and if I look at the file details direct, the genre' shows the molested version, but in MM it shows the correct version. I'm not sure where it's getting what it is.

Example, I have one called "Rock - Classic". After dropping all the files onto the player in Creative, I found I either had a genre' called "Classic Rock Rock - Classic".

Of course in Creative I can't view by genre' so I can edit, and can only edit 1 at a time on the player and in MM I don't see the bad genre' but I can see it in the file details directly.

A few genre's have some artists right and some not. It's only 2-3 genre's out of all. And I can't find any common thread between the files such as ripped using something different etc.

Ahhhemmmmm, With over 3500 songs, I don't relish starting over and ripping new clean stuff with new clean tags so I'll slowly work through fixing this mess.

Everything sounds great though. Even accessing it off the PC via wireless from my multi-room DVR to play from my AV/theater receiver.
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  #304  
Old 04-24-2008, 09:37 AM
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ZC: That is exactly what I use as well! EAC to rip (with LAME MP3 encoder), MP3Gain for normalizing, and MP3Tag for tag editing (including album art).
<O
OldZVMDude: I feel your pain. I had similar issues when trying to get all 4400+ mp3's on my Zen. Incorrect album art issues, tag issues, and sometimes even duplicate files. (Assuming your files are all tagged correctly) I don't know if the sheer volume of files being transferred having anything to do with the syncing programs efficiency, but I used 3 different programs (including MM) for syncing and none seemed to work correctly the first time. What I have found to work is to not use a program to sync all the files over first, but copy/paste them and then any changes or additions afterwards, I can sync and it usually picks up the changes or new files just fine.
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  #305  
Old 04-24-2008, 09:57 PM
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Way back when, I used to not care about tagging. I made sure the basics were correct - Album, Artist, and Title, but didn't care about anything else. Then, after I bought my ZVM, I started caring - a lot! Thankfully, at the time, I only had about 2GB worth of music, so going through my library wasn't such a painful ordeal. Now, with nearly 30GB worth of music, it would be most painful indeed!
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  #306  
Old 04-26-2008, 09:43 AM
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blat, i am so annoyed.
i bought a zen vision:m a couple of days ago. it all looks great, but this little bug is driving me crazy.

i uploaded some album arts to some directories (using the media explorer and drag & drop). it went good. but:
i have one directory of many many songs, all of them with <unknown> album. i didn't give them album art, but for some reason, the zvm gave all of them some album art that i never even saw. we're talking about 700 songs in one directory, all with album <unknown>.

how can i remove this damn album art? i dont use wmp11 btw, and downloading and reuploading 700 songs is a pain in the ass, and i cant do it everything the zvm decides to go crazy.

why cant i see where the zvm puts his album art files?! ive searched on photos and the whole drive, but they're nowhere to be seen. i wish i could just delete it. gah, its my player, let me see all the dirs and delete what i want to. sheesh.

i tell you, this is one of the rare times in life that i actually feel like this smily - . i want to curse more but i say to myself, control yourself. please fellas, help me, so i can be relaxed and use this smily: .

so just for recap - how can i delete album <unknown> album art?
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  #307  
Old 04-26-2008, 09:54 AM
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Did you ever use WMP for playback? If you did, it could have downloaded the album art automatically during playback. When it does this the album art is downloaded as .jpg files and stored in the same folder as the audio files on the computer. The catch is that the .jpg files that are downloaded are stored as hidden files, so you won't be able to see them unless you enable the show hidden files and folders (Windows Explorer > Tools > Folder Options > View tab). This should make them visible in order to delete them if you like.
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  #308  
Old 04-26-2008, 10:12 AM
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it's possible i used wmp a long time ago, but note - the zvm didnt show me any album art, but only after i added album art to other directories it added the weird album art to this directory. i havent played nothing in wmp in this process, so i dont think thats the issue.

i entered the zvm drive again, enabled the show hidden files and folders, but nothing new came up. i cant seem to find where it puts all his album art.

thanks for your help man. any other ideas?

[edit: i just found out the forum edited out a part of my previous post. i meant to say all the songs are in album UNKNOWN, you know, with html tags brackets around it. all of the songs are in zvm's unknown album.]
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  #309  
Old 04-26-2008, 10:24 AM
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They won't be hidden on the ZVM, but on the computer. You may have to delete the audio files that have this album art issue on the ZVM, then delete the hidden .jpg's in the audio folder on the computer, and resync. What do you use for editing ID3 tags? It possible since they all have the same album name, WMP downloaded and applied the same art for all of them with this album name.
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  #310  
Old 04-26-2008, 10:49 AM
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there are no hidden files or album arts on that directory in my computer.
i edited some of the files with tag&rename. they all dont have any album specified (empty, or in the zvm).
but the thing is that they didnt have any album art, and only after i added album art to some albums in the media explorer, this happened. i didnt run wmp or any tag editor.

so, now i downloaded all the files to my computer, and i do see that blasted album art embedded in one of the files. ill delete all album art, delete the directory on zvm, and upload them again. i hope the zvm will delete the album art and wont keep it. isnt there an option to just see and delete the file?
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  #311  
Old 04-26-2008, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
there are no hidden files or album arts on that directory in my computer.
i edited some of the files with tag&rename. they all dont have any album specified (empty, or in the zvm).
but the thing is that they didnt have any album art, and only after i added album art to some albums in the media explorer, this happened. i didnt run wmp or any tag editor.
It will only take one time running WMP and an Internet connection for the files to be downloaded to the audio folder on the computer as hidden files (they do not get embedded). Whether it be how ever long ago until now, but it you have verified there are no hidden jpg files in the audio folder on the computer, than you shouldn't have the issue I am talking about.

Quote:
so, now i downloaded all the files to my computer, and i do see that blasted album art embedded in one of the files. ill delete all album art, delete the directory on zvm, and upload them again. i hope the zvm will delete the album art and wont keep it. isnt there an option to just see and delete the file?
What are you using to see the embedded album art in the audio file after moving the files back to the computer? For embedded album art, I like to use MP3Tag. It is a mass tagger, so you can easily have it remove all album art from those files is just a few clicks.
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  #312  
Old 04-26-2008, 11:13 AM
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i used mp3tag tools, it did it easily. now my problem is checking that every file with no id3 album i upload to that directory (or the whole zvm?) will not have embedded album art. thats kinda a pain in the ass. isnt there a way to remove album art for an album once the zvm cached it? where does it store it and how can i see it? really, this makes no sense to me, it really brings me down.

thanks for your help again.
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  #313  
Old 04-26-2008, 11:27 AM
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If the album art is embedded, then it is stored in the metadata of the file (ID3 Tag). So, if you change the album art of the ID3 tag, it should change it on the audio file on the ZVM as well when you resync. However, this is not always the case. Sometimes, you will have to remove the file on the ZVM, and then resync or copy the file over again with the corrected ID3 tag with the album art, or lack of, that you want.
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  #314  
Old 04-26-2008, 12:02 PM
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i see.
after i deleted the songs and the directory, i uploaded them again. it actually wasn't as bad as i imagined, only ~30 minutes for 3.5 gigas (without the time it took to transfer them to the pc). strange thing, i lost alot of the changes i made to the tags in mediasource. didnt it save them in the id3 tag? how can this be? dunno. i also lost my playlists, but i knew that would happen. another annoying thing - because of the damn system the zvm uses to browse itself, you can't copy playlists to backup them. (maybe you know if this possible?)

my biggest wish is that i could browse the ZVM like a regular drive, like i used to browse my old iriver H10. it would save me so much trouble. is there any way for doing this?
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  #315  
Old 04-26-2008, 12:12 PM
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After you make changes to a particular file or many files when they are all highlighted, you need to make sure you save the changes or else they won't stay. Ctrl-S or File > Save Tag.

The ZVM does not support being a MSC (Mass Storage Class)/UMS (Universal Mass Storage) device. The Zen supports MTP (Message Transfer Protocol). This means, for music files, it organizes by ID3 Tags and not by files/folders.

What's the difference? See here.
For more information on UMS/MSC.
For more information on MTP.
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  #316  
Old 04-26-2008, 12:19 PM
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the changes were made in mediasource, and i made them directly on the playerm so i think it saves automatically - there's no save tag option and i saw the changes when i played them in the player.


about the mtp\ums - yeah, i know. but i also know that some mtp players allow you to boot them in ums mode. i wonder if theres any option to do something similar, like atleast view and copy playlists and images.
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  #317  
Old 04-26-2008, 12:26 PM
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I was referring to the MP3Tag software if you were using it for editing the tags/aart.

MTP loads a device as a Potable Device which you should still see under My Computer (no drive letter). You won't really see a file/folder structure, but you should be able to copy/drag/drop files in the order the device and MTP allows.
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  #318  
Old 05-19-2008, 01:21 PM
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Default Re: how to remove cover art

sorry

i have downloaded both wmp11 and the masstag programme you mentioned but i still can't do it.
can you roughly tell me the steps because i think the thread you referred me was about 3 years ago so probably there's slight changes to the options too

btw do i still depend on creative media player to transfer songs to my mp3 or can i just directly transfer from wmp11

thanks
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  #319  
Old 05-19-2008, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tweety89 View Post
sorry

i have downloaded both wmp11 and the masstag programme you mentioned but i still can't do it.
can you roughly tell me the steps because i think the thread you referred me was about 3 years ago so probably there's slight changes to the options too

btw do i still depend on creative media player to transfer songs to my mp3 or can i just directly transfer from wmp11

thanks
*merged to relevant thread*

Getting the wrong album art for a file is generally indicative of invalid, missing, or duplicate ID3 tags. Correcting the tags so that they accurately reflect the song is the best way to go; that way you can use something like WMP11 to automatically apply the correct album art.

Removing album art is very tricky, because different sync managers have different ways of storing and referencing the album art. Using WMP makes it harder because it stores album art in the file as an ID3 tag, in the file's directory as hidden JPEGs, and within its internal database; so it's usually best to just try to make the album art correct.

If you still want to remove it, the best way is to remove them from the ID3 tags first, using MP3 Tag or MP3 Tag Tools (there are steps for using MP3 Tag Tools in post #6 of this thread). Then, set the root directory where all of your music is stored to show hidden files, and then go through and delete all of the hidden JPEGs. Then, you want to set WMP to not automatically update missing tags (click on the arrow next to Library, and select "Additional Options"). Finally, if you don't want album art showing up on your player when you sync, you need to set WMP11 to not sync pictures of any kind.
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  #320  
Old 05-21-2008, 12:10 PM
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Default Album Art px solved

This was a huge issue for me when I first got my Zen V Plus. I spend a LOT of time working on files. After getting the Vision:M, I too realized that Mp3TagToolsv1.2 is the best way to edit your song files. It's slow because it does not search the Internet for the pictures -- I do that myself at Amazon.com, then save the picture to my hard drive. But it can batch file dozens of songs with one click, either the picture or the other elements of the tag. ZenChick has given some great tutorials on exactly how to do this! Forget MM Jukebox, as it sucks since Yahoo bought it. I still have the last old MM Plus, and still use it to burn CD's. But you cannot use the Internet anymore. You can, however, use it like Mp3TagTools. I don't like WMP 11 -- too many wrong hits. Same thing with the built-in Creative Labs file finder. I have even tried Media Monkey, but didn't like it for a lot of reasons.

Subsequently I have taught myself how to rip individual songs from concert DVD's, convert the .vob files (chapters) to .wmv files using a great free utility called S.U.P.E.R., and then converting them with the Creative Media Explorer to my Zen Vision M. Not only do they have great sound and video quality on the player, but also on my PC. Wayyy better than wandering around You Tube or Yahoo looking for the same song in some crummy flash format.

I have a question, though. (If I need to go to another forum, please advise, ZenChick--and thanks!). Why does my PC all of a sudden now "see" my Vision:M every time I plug it in -- TWICE? Once (as always) in the right folder, and now in a separate folder as "removeable drive" with my name (I use that on the player). The only change I made to my PC recently was installing Microsoft's .NET 2.0. It's a complete duplicate of the regular folder, and always loads in at the same time now. Any thoughts?
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