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  #21  
Old 08-28-2007, 03:27 PM
musichound musichound is offline
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Originally Posted by sumx4182 View Post
there IS an alternative route, the Zen Vision W, the Zen Vision, and the Zen Vision M...three devices and youre complaining about 1 new one...incredible!
I'm not complaining. It's just that i think flashed based players are still over priced. As for the ZVW and ZVM, who knows how long they will still be in production and be supported?
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  #22  
Old 08-28-2007, 04:03 PM
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I'm not complaining. It's just that i think flashed based players are still over priced. As for the ZVW and ZVM, who knows how long they will still be in production and be supported?
Flash based tech is expensive because its more expensive to make...look how much the price has dropped. I bought my 4gb Sansa a year and a half ago fomr $200 dollars. And now I could get double that for $150. Hard drives have been around since 1956, that's 51 years of perfecting, cost cutting, and upgrading. In comparison, the first SSD was created in 1995 by a company that was bought out by Sandisk. So HD's basically have a 40 year head start. This is also why HDs quickly becoming outdated tech. I'm sorry, but you think they are overpriced but you fail to realize that companies are selling these players at price-points just high enough to make some money on. You can't just develop a player, and price it where ever you want and expect a company to succeed. If you want to see better, cheaper players in the future, you need to deal with the pricing now cause if no one purchased them, then companies would make em and we'd be stuck with shitty, fragile hard drives forever. And as for the ZVM and W being supported...you can use any player as long as you damn well please. It's not like they will stop working at some date in the future. They will work till they break, in which case, you'll have to buy a new player. Just like anything else. But that shouldn't stop you from getting one now if you want a HD based PMP with a large capacity and cheap price. You're arguments becoming more and more of a stretch as we go along...In a nice little fantasy world, Creative could charge 200 bucks at most for their 16gb and we'd all be happy, but this is real life. Companies still want profit and the tech is still expensive to make, simple as that.
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  #23  
Old 08-28-2007, 10:30 PM
musichound musichound is offline
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Originally Posted by sumx4182
This is also why HDs quickly becoming outdated tech.
I seriously doubt this. As flash media evolves hard disk media will evolve even further than what they have been.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sumx4182
]And as for the ZVM and W being supported...you can use any player as long as you damn well please. It's not like they will stop working at some date in the future.
But if it ever malfunctions I would want to have the flexibility to send it in for repair if needed.

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Originally Posted by sumx4182
They will work till they break, in which case, you'll have to buy a new player.
But some products are made so well there is simply no replacement for them. For instance, IMO the iRiver H300 and the H100 series are two of the best DAPs that were ever marketed. There are a lot of people who have them repaired or upgraded instead of replacing them with newer gadgets.
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You're arguments becoming more and more of a stretch as we go along.
I seriously doubt this. I think I do have some valid points.
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  #24  
Old 08-29-2007, 01:27 AM
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How about..we leave for Flash vs HDD debate to its OWN THREAD, and if there isn't one already I'll gladly make one and save alot of people getting pissed off.

My take: The ZEN is nice, and I mean niiice. They got a good bunch of designers working on this one, the casing and the GUI, which from what I've seen, looks very very nice and smooth much like the PSP's. 16gb doesn't bother me, my music collection is over 30gb's as of about three days ago and to be honest I don't listen to all of it, so if I got this I'd put all my good stuff on, fill up about 9-10gigs and load the rest up with movies, which would look beeeeeaaaauuuutiful on the 16mil screen. I see no reason why they WOULDN'T include the DJ options on this one, its one of their 'priority players' so they'll have they best stuff on it, and from what's been seen with the ZEN Vs, scratch resistance seems very much possible.

The only thing that is stopping me buying it this second is that I have about...$30 in the bank, and that it is more than likely that Creative will be releasing a bunch of beautiful mp3's on the 31st so if there is something nicer, I'll get that.

Oh and being the resident Mac user, from what has been said on the official Creative page for it, it works in iTunes meaning it'll work on a Mac without third party software. This way also mean that it could possibly be UMS, seeing as UMS devices also turn up in iTunes without any other software running, but until more information surfaces, I don't know.

But after all that, I can't really think of any real shortcoming that cant be easily overcome. It's a very nice player, looks very nice and as said before, it has tactile controls, meaning it'll feel good too.

Thats my post of the month. Jk, I really need to post here more...
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  #25  
Old 08-29-2007, 04:29 AM
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I seriously doubt this. As flash media evolves hard disk media will evolve even further than what they have been.



But if it ever malfunctions I would want to have the flexibility to send it in for repair if needed.



But some products are made so well there is simply no replacement for them. For instance, IMO the iRiver H300 and the H100 series are two of the best DAPs that were ever marketed. There are a lot of people who have them repaired or upgraded instead of replacing them with newer gadgets.


I seriously doubt this. I think I do have some valid points.
HD tech does have a theoretical limit. Repairs can continue to be offered long after a player is no longer in production. If you find a piece of electronics equipment that never breaks and needs replacement in SOME period of time, lemme know.
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  #26  
Old 08-29-2007, 12:09 PM
Parafly9 Parafly9 is offline
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The whole flash vs HD argument is kinda dumb. HD's do NOT break on today's reliable players. Let's face it - anyone buying a PMP will keep it for 3-4 years max before it is outdated and they buy something else. There are very few HD's that will go before that.

Flash: save on weight, they are more reliable although I would say by not much
HD: Awesome capacity, very well refined, bulkier

Depends on what you want. Exercise and carry music? Flash... sit on a train or have music sitting next to your home stereo? HD is fine...

I do agree that eventually the flash WILL wipe out the HD memory. Probably in 5-10 years, you won't see much usage anymore for HD based storage. I think we will see storage "banks" of hot-swappable memory in the future for even our home PC's. You will have a device with 20,30,50 slots on it and you can expand / remove memory as you wish.

For now though, the HD MP3 players still represent the best value in terms of storage capacity, and for a lot of people, particularly people who want to transcode their music in lossless format or have 500+ CD's and home vidoes and photos up the yingyang, this device unfortunately WONT cut it. I consider myself one of those - I have 15000 pictures, 5000 songs and a couple hours of edited home videos and I unfortunately just can't get it all on this player and that makes it worthless for me. I don't want to bring five SD cards with me and swap them everytime I want to see / do something else....

I guess I'll have to wait for 9/5 and see what Apple's bringing to the table :lol:
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  #27  
Old 08-29-2007, 12:34 PM
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No really take the HD/Flash Debate to a new thread!

copy and paste your messages... they will be deleted here
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  #28  
Old 08-29-2007, 03:02 PM
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No really take the HD/Flash Debate to a new thread!

copy and paste your messages... they will be deleted here
it's about 100x easier to have a mod create a new thread and move the "offending" posts there than to have us copy and paste all of them. Just throwing it out there.
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  #29  
Old 08-29-2007, 03:10 PM
musichound musichound is offline
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Originally Posted by sumx4182 View Post
it's about 100x easier to have a mod create a new thread and move the "offending" posts there than to have us copy and paste all of them. Just throwing it out there.
Hey, that's something I do agree with because I have done this before in the forums I moderate.

Can a kind mod or admin do this? If not please feel free to delete the posts and I will start a new thread if it garners any interest.
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  #30  
Old 08-29-2007, 03:12 PM
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Done ...
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  #31  
Old 08-29-2007, 03:31 PM
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I do believe that the manufacturers will slowly replace hard disk drives by flash memory due to the following reasons:
  • They're easier to market: they now can advertise the new players as "feather light", super slim and so on;
  • Less defective units returns: hard drives, with their mechanical components, are more subject to fail than solid state components. So, I guess they expect to have less returns of DOA units or units with defective hard drives. More profits to them.
I'm not trying to make a point, but only to figure out the reasons behind this change.
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  #32  
Old 08-29-2007, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Almoxil View Post
I do believe that the manufacturers will slowly replace hard disk drives by flash memory due to the following reasons:
  • They're easier to market: they now can advertise the new players as "feather light", super slim and so on;
  • Less defective units returns: hard drives, with their mechanical components, are more subject to fail than solid state components. So, I guess they expect to have less returns of DOA units or units with defective hard drives. More profits to them.
I'm not trying to make a point, but only to figure out the reasons behind this change.
Also adding to that list if you get a good solid drop on ANY hdd player wether it be iPod ZV:M or ZV:W the hard drive CAN break that way
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  #33  
Old 08-29-2007, 04:20 PM
musichound musichound is offline
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Done ...
Thank you.
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  #34  
Old 08-29-2007, 04:56 PM
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...i bought a 320 gig external hd...
...solved all my storage problems...
...then my brother dropped it an inch...
...one inch, onto the desk...
...im off hd's...
...for life...
...flash me up!...
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  #35  
Old 08-29-2007, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by ramakandra View Post
...i bought a 320 gig external hd...
...solved all my storage problems...
...then my brother dropped it an inch...
...one inch, onto the desk...
...im off hd's...
...for life...
...flash me up!...
*ROFL* Sorry, mate, for your external hard drive... that's why we still use tape backup: yes, it's damn slow, yes, it's "jurassic", but when the boss asks for that old report, you know the data will be there. Not that the tapes won't fail, but they're much more robust than hard disks, that's for sure. The same goes for flash memory.
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  #36  
Old 08-29-2007, 07:31 PM
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actually Atrax, according to Creative's microsite for this, its MTP, because it supports subscription music from Rhapsody and Napster to go. soo im assuming and im probably right when i say, no UMS.
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  #37  
Old 08-31-2007, 07:37 AM
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Im glad flash is making a foray, but I want just twice as much storage before im sold.
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  #38  
Old 09-03-2007, 11:24 PM
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I have to say, I've been a little skittish of the low capacities of flash-based players.
However, seeing as the Zen Touch that I bought almost 2 years ago and barely used until recently decided to suffer a hard drive failure today, I'm starting to give flash memory players a more serious look.
My current music collection is fairly small but I'm sure it'll be growing in the near future. Regardless, I think 8gb or so is more than enough music for my average motorcycle trip.
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  #39  
Old 09-19-2007, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Almoxil View Post
*ROFL* Sorry, mate, for your external hard drive... that's why we still use tape backup: yes, it's damn slow, yes, it's "jurassic", but when the boss asks for that old report, you know the data will be there. Not that the tapes won't fail, but they're much more robust than hard disks, that's for sure. The same goes for flash memory.
haha this made my day.

On topic, I got a 5 GB music collection, and no videos I'd watch on the device to speak of, and battery life and durability are my top concerns...


which format do you think I like?
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  #40  
Old 09-19-2007, 12:58 PM
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I dunno which format you might like - but since you got only 5GB of audio and no videos, the Zen might not be the best player for your needs....
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