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  #21  
Old 02-24-2008, 11:14 PM
Slisochies Slisochies is offline
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So you're going to get a USB adapter, and then unplug the USB adapter and see if it still works???
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  #22  
Old 02-25-2008, 07:16 AM
placebo placebo is offline
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ok i need to correct some of my statements.

with 1-to-4, i dont mean an adapter, but a standard external USB 2.0 hub for the PC. with such a hub (you can buy versions with extra power supply or without. mine is with external power supply as seen on the pic), you multiply your few USB interfaces at the BACK of your PC, so that you have more.

Here the back and front of the external 1-to-4 hub:



Yesterday i found out that i can disconnect that USB 2.0 hub from my PC (the USB cable) and still use it for charging the T10. That's why i definitely dont need any USB-adapter. My hub fulfills the task of an adapter. kewl.

On the other hand, when i leave the hub connected to the (turned off) PC, but, instead, disconnect the hub's power supply cable, then...suprise...the T10 is not being charged. This is now contrary to my former post. (much confusion hehe)

BUT...if i connect the T10 to *other* (=more modern) PC's which are 1.) turned off, and 2.) have a USB-interface AT THE FRONT, then...surprise again...the T10 *is* being charged. Although the PC's are turned off. I've tried this with various, very different PC's at school. And definitely a yes, the T10 is charged, although all those school PC's are turned off (If the PC is 100% noiseless (fan of the power supply turned off, fan of the CPU turned off, harddiskdrive turned off, other fans turned off, etc., then you know that the PC is turned off)

I dont really wonder that the T10 is not charged at home, when i directly connect it to my turned off old PC (USB 1.x).

Where's the USB-interface at your PC? At the front (=modern PC) or at the back?
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  #23  
Old 02-25-2008, 12:47 PM
placebo placebo is offline
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battery decharged fast today: i was listening to 256kbps MP3-files for 6.0hours. before: FULL, after: EMPTY, see screenshot:


Remember this number: if you listen to MP3's of 256kbps (or higher) quality, your T10 will last for exactly 6 hours. not longer.



(i was lucky with the scan. when the T10 is empty and you turn it on, it goes like this:

HEYA IT'S ME SAMMY (2sec) -> WELCOME PLACEBO (2sec) -> TURNS OFF SOON DUE TO A LOW BATTERY (2sec) [the above scan!] -> SEE YOU AGAIN PLACEBO (2sec) -> [turned off automatically. all black ]

so you can imagine that i was very hard to make a good scan (600dpi) of the T10 display. The above is in 150dpi (scan process faster this way). )

"enjoy"

[in near future i'll do tests with 128kbps-WMA's to see how long the battery lasts. in theory, it should be at least 25hours.]
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  #24  
Old 02-25-2008, 06:27 PM
pybcu pybcu is offline
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Default 6hours - that's what the datasheet says when using bluetooth...

Quote:
Originally Posted by placebo View Post
if you listen to MP3's of 256kbps (or higher) quality, your T10 will last for exactly 6 hours.
6 hours is what is written in the datasheet for the time you can play audio when using bluetooth (as opposed to 30 hours without bluetooth) - so were you using bluetooth/did you have it enabled?

If it was disabled, this would be really disappointing (and thankfully doesn't match my experience with oggs)

(but the datasheet is rather old, and surprisingly it lists 4 hours for both "video" and "bluetooth & video" - so not sure what those values are worth in the end)
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  #25  
Old 02-25-2008, 10:31 PM
Slisochies Slisochies is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pybcu View Post
6 hours is what is written in the datasheet for the time you can play audio when using bluetooth (as opposed to 30 hours without bluetooth) - so were you using bluetooth/did you have it enabled?

If it was disabled, this would be really disappointing (and thankfully doesn't match my experience with oggs)

(but the datasheet is rather old, and surprisingly it lists 4 hours for both "video" and "bluetooth & video" - so not sure what those values are worth in the end)
You would have to be lucky to get 6 hours at 256kbps with bluetooth. When I use bluetooth it drains the battery insanely fast (All of my music is encoded varying rates between 128kbps and over 300kbps in mp3).

In reply to Placebo, my PC has USB ports at both the front and the back. I usually use the back ones though.
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  #26  
Old 02-26-2008, 03:06 AM
placebo placebo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pybcu View Post
6 hours is what is written in the datasheet for the time you can play audio when using bluetooth (as opposed to 30 hours without bluetooth) - so were you using bluetooth/did you have it enabled?

If it was disabled, this would be really disappointing (and thankfully doesn't match my experience with oggs)

(but the datasheet is rather old, and surprisingly it lists 4 hours for both "video" and "bluetooth & video" - so not sure what those values are worth in the end)
Hi, no i dont have nor use bluetooth. it is disabled on my T10. So the 6.0hours are the result of non-bluetooth usage (with the default settings, no Equalizer, no special mode, nothing, and the Samsung earphones. at volume=15). And yes, the 6.0hours *are* disappointing

Today i am doing a full-day test with 128kbps-WMA's. playmode is "repeat", volume is 10. no equalizer or other special settings. displayOff is 15 secs (if i want to change the album ). I'll let the music running all day even if i dont listen to it. the battery symbol has 4 bars. then 3 bars, 2 bars, 1 bar. and i am not sure if it shows 0 bars, and then LATER ON begins to flash, or if it goes directly from 1 bar to the flashing icon modus (which would equal 0 bars). maybe i can catch the moment when the '1 bar mode' is over, and see what comes next.

anyway, if i dont catch that moment...the T10 turns itself off automatically when the battery is TOO low. We should prevent this from happening too often, as stated in the PDF-manual. it harms the battery (life). So yesterday, when i did that T10 screenshot with my PC scanner (okay, it was the school's scanner, hehe), it was the 2nd time that my pet turned itself off due to TOO LOW battery. i also allowed it to occur IN ORDER TO (BE ABLE TO) SHOW YOU that screenshot. i hope you guys appreciate it. *LOL*


Quote:
Originally Posted by Slisochies View Post
In reply to Placebo, my PC has USB ports at both the front and the back. I usually use the back ones though.
nice computi you have!! (then i cant explain why your system behaves differently than all the (modern) PC's i tested so far. their FRONT USB-ports still deliver voltage/electric current/power even when they are powered down through the FRONT poweroff-buttons)

TEMP INFO EDIT:
'By chance' i found out that the battery symbol went from '1bar' to '0bar' after ~11h30mins. Good to know, the '0bar'-symbol is NOT flashing/blinking when it is reached. Let's do a rough calculation: i used up 4 bars (namely bar4, bar3, bar2, and bar1. Now i am at bar0) in 11.5hours or max 12hours. ---> 12h / 4bars = 3h/bar. In other words, you have 3.0hours per bar (for 128kbps-WMA),
so i expect the symbol to begin to flash in 2-3 hours (or earlier, as a warning), which means that the battery is 'pretty empty' and i should recharge it. My result will be: 15.0hours max. (MAX!) of listening. To 128kbps-WMA's, no fancy sound settings, at volume=10, (and tender music ;-) ).

15hours. instead of the advertised 30hours.

THAT *IS* DISAPPOINTING!!

(if other users report much higher capacities (in hours), then my battery could be defective. So.. feel free to post YOUR EXPERIENCED/MEASURED CAPACITIES (in hours)! )
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  #27  
Old 02-26-2008, 02:41 PM
placebo placebo is offline
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Exclamation

At the time of writing, 12.0hours have passed (from 8:30am to 8:30pm), the battery symbol is now blinking/flashing. Only 30mins ago, the '0bar'-symbol was NOT flashing.

Flashing means that the battery is "pretty empty". But not completely empty. However, it does mean that the user is advised to recharge it and NOT TO continue to use the gadget.

Any of you would now stop the 'decharging test'. So will I. Now. After 12.0hours. Result of my test, summary:

Quote:
*.WMA-files with tender music. 128kbps (Windows Media Audio v9.1). VOLUME = 10. No special equalizer settings, all set to Normal. Time elapsed from full battery ("4bars") flashing symbol to empty battery ("0bars") flashing symbol = 12.0hours. Decharging test stopped at this point of time (in order to prevent the T10 from displaying the "Turns off soon due to a low battery"-message).
...i will repeat the decharging test with 128kbps-MP3's (i dont have that many files with this 'low' sound quality when i can.


EDIT: again, at the time of writing...the T10 turned itself off, automatically. Now it is official: the battery lasted for 12hours and 15mins. the symbol turned
Quote:
from 4bars to 3bars (after 3.0hours),
from 3bars to 2bars (after another 3.0hours),
from 2bars to 1bar (after another 3.0hours),
from 1bar to 0bar (after another 2.5hours),
from 0bar to flashing0bar (after another 0.5hours (max!)) <------- this is the critical point. YOU SHOULD RECHARGE NOW!,
from flashing0bar to automaticturnoff (after another 15mins.) <------- TRY TO AVOID THIS (SEE MANUAL.PDF).
Woh, if i dont gain much better results with 128-MP3's, then i should get a replacement within the next months (and have it replace by a 8GB T10 model for the same price. Thanks to amazon service.)
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  #28  
Old 02-26-2008, 03:52 PM
pybcu pybcu is offline
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Default Auto-Turn off because of low battery = excessive discharge?

Quote:
Originally Posted by placebo View Post
Flashing means that the battery is "pretty empty". But not completely empty. However, it does mean that the user is advised to recharge it and NOT TO continue to use the gadget.
Hmm - what does your manual read? Mine only reads that excessive charging (more than 12 hours) or discharging could harm the battery.
"Do not overcharge (longer than 12 hours).
Excessive charging or discharging may shorten the battery’s life."

Is it only your interpretation that the auto-turn off is to be avoided, or is it listed in your manual?

I'd really be interested in it, since I personally don't think that the auto-turn off should cause any bad effects - since that's why the device detects the low-volume situation, isn't it?
Of course after it did turn off itself, I wouldn't force it back on - but can you really expect the user to constantly look at the display to avoid that situation?
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  #29  
Old 02-26-2008, 04:30 PM
placebo placebo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pybcu View Post
Hmm - what does your manual read? Mine only reads that excessive charging (more than 12 hours) or discharging could harm the battery.
"Do not overcharge (longer than 12 hours).
Excessive charging or discharging may shorten the battery’s life."

Is it only your interpretation that the auto-turn off is to be avoided, or is it listed in your manual?

I'd really be interested in it, since I personally don't think that the auto-turn off should cause any bad effects - since that's why the device detects the low-volume situation, isn't it?
Of course after it did turn off itself, I wouldn't force it back on - but can you really expect the user to constantly look at the display to avoid that situation?
My manual is your manual (I've read both the English and German manuals) and it says exactly what you quoted. And of course, YES, it is my own interpretation of the quoted lines.

Hmmh... i *then* wonder what they mean with 'excessive discharging' . In my interpretation, excessive discharging means 'ignoring the flashing0bar' and let it happen: the automatic turn off. It could even mean 'ignoring the (nonflashing) 0bar'...since the 0bar symbolizes an empty battery. As a sign for the user to recharge it. Then the flashing0bar the very last warning à la 'you MUST go and recharge it now or you will harm the battery!'.

Once it is turned off automatically and you force it to turn on (i tried. otherwise i couldnt have supplied the screenshot to you guys!!), it will IMMEDIATELY automatically turn off again. as described. (the 2seconds-series). So there's no chance for discharging the battery even more (e.g. by watching p*rn vid clips (the video conversion tests *ggg*): the T10 doesnt give you the chance for using the T10. Do you think that they mean by 'excessive discharging' the repeated forced turning on? (the forced turning on doesnt make sense, as described)

Yes, i agree, the auto-turn-off feature should NOT harm the battery's quality or life. And i am eager to know if this is the casse. if your assumption is true.

i believe, my personal interpretation, that i am right. -> users are expected to observe the battery symbol. When the symbol is empty (0bars), the user knows that he has a max of 30mins left (for 128-WMA) before the symbol will flash (flashing0bar). Then another 15mins. max. when it turns off. These last 15mins are critical. Yes, that's all my interpretation
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  #30  
Old 02-26-2008, 08:10 PM
shinobi00 shinobi00 is offline
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12 hours of music? Umm I listen to ogg files a lot and I'm pretty sure i get more than 12 hours. I bet your battery is screwed up.
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  #31  
Old 02-28-2008, 06:13 AM
placebo placebo is offline
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Oh, i didnt know that T10 supports *.OGG-files. I will try them soon. Right now i am on a battery decharging test with 128kbps-MP3's... Please come back later tonight/tomorrow to check my posted results

EDIT: test already over. stats: fully charged and recharged (flashing4bar): Wed,22:10Uhr. automatic turn-off: Thu,14:35Uhr. time elapsed: exactly 16hours25mins!

Official result of my test, susummary:

Quote:
*.MP3-files with tender music. 128kbps CBR (?LAME). VOLUME = 10. No special equalizer settings, all set to Normal, (Playmode=Repeat, of course!), external button set to Hold all the time (=display was permanently off!!!), Time elapsed from full battery ("flashing4bars") symbol to automatic turn-off = 16.5hours.
My measured 16hours are not any near to 20, 25, 26 or 30hours. So i'll get a replacement for my T10-JAW when the prices for the 8GB are equal to the amount of EURO's which i paid for the 4GB-version 6 weeks ago

EDIT: recharged it and timed it. start: 14:45Uhr; finished: 16:57Uhr; time elapsed = less than 2hours15mins. So...my copy of the T10 recharges fast (2.25hours) and decharges fast (16.5hours for 128-mp3). I hope you find my data/tests/info/screenshots/etc useful
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  #32  
Old 02-28-2008, 03:24 PM
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sassafras sassafras is offline
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Everyone should read this article when talking about anything battery related:

http://www.batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-34.htm
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