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Old 01-13-2008, 03:47 PM
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Default Tags Resetting?!...

I've been spending a lot of time in the last couple of weeks re-tagging all my songs (putting track numbers in front of the songs, making sure year and genre is filled out properly, putting years in front of album names) using the Creative Media Organiser software and it seems to be working fine. The only problem I have is I also want to update the album art but apparently (I stand corrected here) you can only update the album art if your album/songs are on your pc and not on your player (I don't have enough room on my pc to have my 30gig worth on there). To get around this I'd thought I'd just update all the tag info using the Creative program while they're still on my player and then just transfer an album at a time back onto my pc and then use Media Monkey to update the album art tag using Amazon (and have all the other options turned off so it doesn't over-write my info).

The problem I have is if I copy an album from my player back onto my pc it automatically re-sets the song names and album name (so it now doesn't have the year in front of the album and track number in front of the song name). Whats going on here? The songs have definately changed as when I see them on my player (or on the pc through any program they clearly have updated) but when I transfer them back to the pc it just changes them all...

Please help.
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Old 01-13-2008, 04:22 PM
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Changes made once on the player are made to the players database, not to the ID3-Tags of the files. You should be able to update album art on the player using Vision:M Media Explorer, I think you need to change the view to album view or something like that, then you can drag album art over (don't remember exactly and don't have Media Explorer on my computer).
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Old 01-13-2008, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HipHopScribe View Post
Changes made once on the player are made to the players database, not to the ID3-Tags of the files. You should be able to update album art using Vision:M Media Explorer, I think you need to change the view to album view or something like that, then you can drag album art over (don't remember exactly and don't have Media Explorer on my computer).
Thanks for your reply.

So am I wasting my time updating all the song titles and album titles via the Creative Media Organiser while they're on my player (i.e. it's not really updating the tags)? They look right on my player but if I happen to upgrade to a new player in a couple of years are you saying all the titles etc will not be as I see them when I transfer them to a new player?

On the updating of the album art are you saying that using the above method I will be able to update the ID tags or will it just save a jpg image to my player as the album art?
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Old 01-13-2008, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waverley73 View Post
Thanks for your reply.

So am I wasting my time updating all the song titles and album titles via the Creative Media Organiser while they're on my player (i.e. it's not really updating the tags)? They look right on my player but if I happen to upgrade to a new player in a couple of years are you saying all the titles etc will not be as I see them when I transfer them to a new player?
Right, the tags are not being changed at all, the changes only occur on the player itself.

Quote:
On the updating of the album art are you saying that using the above method I will be able to update the ID tags or will it just save a jpg image to my player as the album art?
Again, the change would only be on the player, the tags would not be changed on the files. The best thing to do is to edit the tags on the computer before transferring to the player.
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Old 01-13-2008, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HipHopScribe View Post
Right, the tags are not being changed at all, the changes only occur on the player itself.



Again, the change would only be on the player, the tags would not be changed on the files. The best thing to do is to edit the tags on the computer before transferring to the player.
ok.....it seems I've just wasted around 20 hours of my time editing (or thinking I was editing) my songs. Looks like it's time to buy that external hard drive I've been thinking of getting, loading it up with all my songs (nearly 30gig worth) and getting busy...again.

Thanks for letting me know before I got too far into my collection (done around 50 albums with around 350 to go).

Is there an easy way once I have my collection on my pc to have all my songs tagged the way I want (other than going through album by album)? I want all my albums titles to look like this (with the year at the front):

1986 - Master Of Puppets

With all the song titles within the albums to look like this (with the track number at the front of the name):

01 - Battery
02 - Master of Puppets

etc. etc.

I am also wanting to clean up the file names as well with some of them looking like this:

Metallica_album_master_of_puppets_blah_blah.mp3

to look more like the song name with the file extension eg:

01 - Battery.mp3
02 - Master Of Puppets.mp3

etc. etc.

Cheers.
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Old 01-13-2008, 06:36 PM
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MP3 Tag Tools is an old yet very powerful piece of freeware that will do what you need to do. The application has a bit of a learning curve, so be sure to read through the documentation carefully.
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Old 01-13-2008, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenChick View Post
MP3 Tag Tools is an old yet very powerful piece of freeware that will do what you need to do. The application has a bit of a learning curve, so be sure to read through the documentation carefully.
Thanks, I will check it out. Will the software allow me to change the tags while they're on my player or will I have to do transfer all my songs onto my pc first?
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Old 01-13-2008, 06:40 PM
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They have to be on your PC.
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Old 01-13-2008, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenChick View Post
They have to be on your PC.
OK thanks.....(grits teeth but begrudgingly knew that was going to be the answer...)
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Old 01-13-2008, 07:41 PM
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Just one question on MP3 Tag Tools - does it work on other file types as well (eg .wav)?
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Old 01-13-2008, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waverley73 View Post
Just one question on MP3 Tag Tools - does it work on other file types as well (eg .wav)?
AFAIK wav files can't be tagged
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  #12  
Old 01-13-2008, 07:49 PM
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Quote:
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AFAIK wav files can't be tagged
So the 300+ CD's worth of songs which I've ripped to my player as wav's can't be re-tagged?
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Old 01-13-2008, 07:51 PM
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and wav files I don't think can be tagged! Why did you rip them all to .wav anyway?
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Old 01-13-2008, 07:54 PM
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and wav files I don't think can be tagged! Why did you rip them all to .wav anyway?
Well there's the million dollar question...I have no idea (I think it was the default?). FFS - this is crazy. There's no way I'm going to re-rip 300 CD's....I'm gunna just have to live with their existing tags me thinks....

What I've been doing (using Creative Media Organiser to change the album and song titles) means my songs and albums look better on my player but that isn't actually permanently changing the tags right? It's probably only an issue if I ever have to transfer my music from this player to another so maybe it's not all bad (except for the fact I'll have to forget trying to add album art). It just means I'll NEVER ever be able to update my player......dang.....
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Old 01-13-2008, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
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and wav files I don't think can be tagged! Why did you rip them all to .wav anyway?
I have read that Audiograbber can be used to convert CD's to Wav, with this it can put the ID3 tag into the Wav file. Also audiograbber can be used to then convert to MP3 and it rips the ID3 info out and puts it into the MP3. But I can not confirm this as I have not tried it.
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Old 01-14-2008, 12:57 AM
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That doesn't seem likely given that WAV does not support any kind of metadata tagging beyond what the host filesystem can provide. However, all is not lost. One can "embed" most of the important tags into each file's filename, create MP3s from the WAV files (preserving the filenames), then use the filename/foldername structure to automatically create the ID3 tags.

For example, consider:
M:\Enya\A Day Without Rain\03-Only Time.mp3

With that information above, a bulk tagging utility like MP3 Tag Tools can create the tags for you. You'd still have to add in lesser tags such as Genre and Year, but any autotagger such as what's built into WMP can do this.

However, for the sake of hard drive space and OP's sanity, I would suggest finding some sort of automated script that can mass-convert all those WAVs to a lossless-compression format that does support metadata-tagging, such as FLAC or APE.
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Old 01-14-2008, 05:37 AM
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OK - does the Creative Vision:M play music which is formatted as FLAC then? If the answer is no then I'm going to just forget about spending any more time on this. If it does then I will probably just find a program which can convert .wav to FLAC and get into it (if this is the case does anyone know of any good freeware that can do this?).

EDIT: I have looked it up and it DOESN'T support FLAC............................grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrrrrrr.........grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. (sorry - me just venting).

This is VERY frustrating.......ok.....might step away from pc and player for a bit..
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Old 01-14-2008, 04:37 PM
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lol... Might be a good idea.

When I made the suggestion about using FLAC or APE, it was for the sole benefit of your music archives. WAV is good, but doesn't support metadata, which can make managing your archives a bit frustrating. The nice thing about maintaining an archive of lossless files is that you can convert them to whatever format you want without suffering transconversion losses (at least, no losses beyond those inherent with lossy compression).

For my working-copy library, I use LAME-encoded MP3s, encoded using --VBR-new -v2 profiles.
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Old 01-14-2008, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenChick View Post
lol... Might be a good idea.

When I made the suggestion about using FLAC or APE, it was for the sole benefit of your music archives. WAV is good, but doesn't support metadata, which can make managing your archives a bit frustrating. The nice thing about maintaining an archive of lossless files is that you can convert them to whatever format you want without suffering transconversion losses (at least, no losses beyond those inherent with lossy compression).

For my working-copy library, I use LAME-encoded MP3s, encoded using --VBR-new -v2 profiles.
OK. If you were in my position and had a player filled with around 28 gig worth (around 440 albums) of songs (of which probably around 75% are .wav) would you just say forget the tags and live with what they've got or go and re-rip 300 + cd's as FLAC, then re-tag them all and then convert them all to LAME-encoded MP3s and transfer them back onto your player?

PC space wont be an issue as I will be buying a 400 gig external hard drive in the next week or so. What might be at stake is my sanity and lots of my time...
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Old 01-14-2008, 11:16 PM
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If I were in your position, I would copy all the WAVs back to my PC to store as archive files. Then I would download LAME (a powerful CLI-based MP3 encoder) and RazorLAME (a simple GUI front-end for LAME). Open RazorLAME, configure it, then drag-and-drop your entire WAV collection into its window. Click "Encode", and sit back as it creates MP3 copies of all your WAV files. Once that's done, open up MP3 Tag Tools, point it to where all your new MP3s went, and use it to tag all your new MP3 files. It might me a pain in the butt at first, but once you're done, you'll have a nice set of perfectly-tagged files and about 21GB of extra free space on your player.
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