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  #21  
Old 04-19-2008, 02:55 AM
ashtanga ashtanga is offline
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...still no change guys - getting really pi$$ed off now. Update:

Formatted hard drive and re-installed a clean XP Pro (no SP2)
Installed SP2 and Media Player 10

...no luck at all. iPod recognized fine but not the Zen VM.

Formatted Hard Drive and re-installed Vista Home Premium.
Ensured Service mentioned earlier was running and set to Automatic start

...still no luck.

I am not far off turning said ZVM into a frisbee!
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  #22  
Old 04-19-2008, 07:39 AM
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Well, I certainly wouldn't hold it against you if you wanted to take a hammer to it.

Two computers. Two different OS's (even clean installs done) . Other devices work fine so ports are good (even though the IPod is not an MTP device like the ZVM). The ZVM won't even be recognized by both OS's (no audible alert or drivers loading)..... It sounds like an issue with the ZVM instead of the computer, even though you mentioned before that they works fine up until you got new computers.

Did you install the Creative software after doing both reinstalls of the OS's? The ZVM should work as long as you got WMP10 installed on XP and should easily work with Vista. If you do run the ZVM with Creative's software installed and WMP11, there is a patch from Creative that needs to be installed to get it to work correctly. Were you able to try another cable or dongle? How's the ZVM been working by itself?<O</O
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  #23  
Old 04-19-2008, 08:08 AM
ashtanga ashtanga is offline
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Well yeah, that just about sums it up. Device worked ok until I thought I would update the firmware - of course I can't even do that now as I cannot get a usb connection from either machine even with a friends dongle. So I effectively have a heap of junk with NO help at all from Creative other than offering me a discount on a new machine. Great! I can't install any of the Creative software either as it keeps telling me a device is not attached (in the installation prgram that is) so cannot continue.

Where can I find the update you mention?
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  #24  
Old 04-19-2008, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gaz25 View Post
Only problem is as i say, pc don't detect it.
Does it show up in the disc manager at all?

If you right-click on My Computer and select Manage, and then Disc Management, does it list a drive, correctly or incorrectly labeled, of the right size?
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Last edited by Chili; 04-19-2008 at 02:59 PM. Reason: clarifying
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  #25  
Old 04-19-2008, 03:29 PM
ashtanga ashtanga is offline
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No nothing showing in there either.
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  #26  
Old 04-19-2008, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashtanga View Post
Device worked ok until I thought I would update the firmware
You're killing me here....... Why is this the first time you mention you tried updating the firmware?

Quote:
Device worked fine up until getting new computers
This was the reason you stated before that was the last time the ZVM was working. Not working after "trying to upgrade firmware" is a far fetch from not working "since getting new computers". This entire time has been focused around the computer as the issue, but if it was working fine up until you tried updating the firmware..... then the attention needs to be on the ZVM.

- First, are you sure you downloaded the correct firmware?
- Did you have a connected and detected ZVM BEFORE you decided to update the firmware?
- Does the ZVM turn on?
- If so, what does it do when turning on?
- If not, was it at least half charged when you tried updating the firmware?
- Will it boot into recovery mode?

Quote:
Where can I find the update you mention?
All the updates, software, fixes in the world won't make a damn bit of difference if you don't have a working/booting ZVM that can be detected and properly have its driver(s) loaded by Windows.
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  #27  
Old 04-19-2008, 05:08 PM
ashtanga ashtanga is offline
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You misunderstand me LOL! I have only tried to update the firmware. Prior to that it was a 'working ZVM' just not being recognised by any of the methods afore mentioned/
  • First, are you sure you downloaded the correct firmware? 60Gig, the only one I could find
  • Did you have a connected and detected ZVM BEFORE you decided to update the firmware? No
  • Does the ZVM turn on? Yes
  • If so, what does it do when turning on? Recovery Screen
  • If not, was it at least half charged when you tried updating the firmware? Fully Charged
  • Will it boot into recovery mode? Yes
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  #28  
Old 04-19-2008, 05:28 PM
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Ok, well updating the firmware won't do any good if it isn't being detected by Windows, nor will it be detected by any software. If the VZM is not even being detected (no audible alert or Windows recognizing it enough to load drivers for it and showing within Device Manager (even if it shows errors), the problems are either with the ZVM itself (including dongle), the USB Cable, or the USB ports (bad ports, low power, incorrect BIOS settings, USB drivers).

Now, why is it booting directly into Recovery Mode? I thought you had/have a working ZVM, even before you attempted to update the firmware or get different computers? How long has it been since it began booting directly into recovery mode? Did you try to do anything that could of resulted in it booting like this instead of a normal boot?

FYI: When you get you ZVM back to being detected by Windows/Software, since you have a 30GB Zen, you need to make sure you download and use the 30GB firmware and not the 60GB's version.
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  #29  
Old 04-19-2008, 05:46 PM
ashtanga ashtanga is offline
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Just tried re-installing the Firmware yesterday. Since then its ONLY going into recovery mode. Can't get it to boot past that now.

ps. when re-booting now I can just catch a quick message reporting a firmware error. Then it goes straight to the Recovery Screen.
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  #30  
Old 04-19-2008, 05:51 PM
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When you tried to reload the firmware, did you boot into recovery mode and select the reload firmware option? If you did, that would explain why it only boots into recovery mode now. That option will erase the firmware on the ZVM so that you can connect it to the computer (when it works) to reload/update the firmware. Using the recovery mode reload firmware option is a good way to reload firmware on the device when the regular updating way won't work because the current firmware may be corrupt or preventing the new firmware from loading.
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  #31  
Old 04-21-2008, 04:25 AM
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Sorry for late update. tried on windows xp machine with wmp 10. Tried on vista with wmp 11. don't work on either.
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  #32  
Old 04-21-2008, 05:50 AM
gaz25 gaz25 is offline
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For ashtanga's problem it sounds like he has the same fault as me with usb not working. Tried a firmware upgrade but didn't realise that the firmware gets wiped then needs an active usb connection for firmware update.

ashtanga the firmware issue can be sorted later its the usb issue we must solve as i have the same problem. The firmware i don't think plays a part in the usb connection anyway becuase you can connect a zen with no firmware and a pc will still detect it.

This is a fault obviously with the Zen so where can we go from here?

Also does anyone know where i can circuit diagrams or anything for the zen as i have an electronics guy at work who might be able to figure it out but he said he won't look at it without one..
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  #33  
Old 04-21-2008, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gaz25 View Post
This is a fault obviously with the Zen so where can we go from here?

<O

There are two ways to upgrade/reload the firmware on the Zen:
<O
<O
1. The first is by having the Zen connected and detected by the computer and executing the firmware .EXE file downloaded from Creative's site. This is how it is usually done and should be done for most purposes.
<O</O
<O
2. The second is by booting into Recovery Mode and selecting the Reload Firmware option. This will erase the current firmware loaded on the Zen and prepare it for a reload/upgrade. It is done this way as a fail-safe for firmware problems that may be interfering with upgrades or reloads done the regular way. When you use this option, you should ALWAYS make sure you have an existing, working, USB connection that allows the Zen to be detected and working.
<O
<O
Both ways are mentioned in the Zen's manual, on this Forum, and in the release notes and instructions for each firmware release by Creative. There is no fault on the side of the Zen. This is the way it was designed to be used and is a very nice feature/option to have when trouble is around.
<O
<O
Now, to the problem at hand; Even if someone was to use the Recovery Mode Reload Firmware option and erases their firmware currently loaded on the Zen. The Zen is still designed to boot into Recovery Mode to wait for a new firmware load and be detected by Windows and to have its driver installed. If it is not going this, it can be because of multiple reasons:
<O
<O
1. Faulty hardware within the Zen (Hard drive, Battery, Cable, Dongle, etc.).<O
2. USB port problems (Bad ports, Not enough power on the ports, etc.)<O
3. Driver Issues (With USB, MTP, etc.)<O
4. Software Conflicts (Creative Software, MTP, etc.)
<O
<O
If you do not have a working connection that is detectable by Windows and the corresponding software for loading files on the Zen, you will not be able to load the firmware because it will not be detected properly in order to load it.
<O
<O
If you have verified that you have a working Zen (boots up fine, charges and holds a charge, doesn't have a bad hard drive) and that the USB ports you are using work fine (worked before, works with another device fine), then you need to move onto the next step which is to make sure that the Zen is being detected and having its drivers loaded for it properly within Windows.
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  #34  
Old 04-21-2008, 10:19 AM
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1. Faulty hardware within the Zen (Hard drive, Battery, Cable, Dongle, etc.). Battery Fine, Hard Drive Seems ok, Cable fine, Dongle fine<O
2. USB port problems (Bad ports, Not enough power on the ports, etc.)
PC USB Ports are all fine<O
3. Driver Issues (With USB, MTP, etc.) Im gussing they are all fine as i have plugged in a few zens now and this is the only one not working.<O
4. Software Conflicts (Creative Software, MTP, etc.) Same as Step 3

As i said in a previous post, i can charge off the USB just not detect anything.
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  #35  
Old 04-21-2008, 12:06 PM
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gaz25:

1. You did mention that the hard drive was making some clicking noise at one time, so it is possible the hard drive could be bad or intermittently bad. The best way to tell for sure with this is to open up the ZVM and using either an adapter or hard drive enclosure to connect it to the computer and see if it is working correctly (access it, take a reformat...). <O
<O
3. Have you connected another 60GB Zen that works or has it only been the 30GB that has worked correctly? Watch the drivers load with Device Manager open and plug in the working ZVM (30GB). Take note of where it load and what it says. Then do the same with the ZVM that isn't working (60GB) to see what happens.
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  #36  
Old 04-22-2008, 02:51 AM
ashtanga ashtanga is offline
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I can pretty much mirror Gaz25's comments (and he mine I am sure). There is no reason to presume that my Zen is 'broken' I am sure. Never dropped or man-handled etc...

I think I am getting to the point were I would prefer someone to tell me its knackered quite honestly.

Tony...
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  #37  
Old 04-22-2008, 04:05 AM
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Ashtanga: Please forgive me if this has already been mentioned, but - at any point of time, have you tried reformatting your ZVM's hard disk via the Recovery Mode menu?
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  #38  
Old 04-22-2008, 04:07 AM
gaz25 gaz25 is offline
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Quote:
Watch the drivers load with Device Manager open and plug in the working ZVM (30GB). Take note of where it load and what it says. Then do the same with the ZVM that isn't working (60GB) to see what happens
nothing happens with the 60gb version. I put the zen under a scope (bit like a microscope). At first i thought on of the pins was missing so assumed that was the problem however, ooking closer i could just see the edge of the pin which means the rest of the pin is either black or covered in dirt. Im going to strip the zen down today to take alook.
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  #39  
Old 04-22-2008, 09:47 AM
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Tony: I know you have mentioned you have checked the Device Manager, but do this:
<O
1. With the ZVM disconnected, open Device Manager<O
2. With Device Manager open, plug in the ZVM.<O
3. Take note of any activity at all. <O
<O
Does Device Manager do an automatic refresh due to a new plug and play device being inserted and detected? If so and you don't see any new entry with any error (exclamation mark over it), expand all categories looking for the new entry of the ZVM/MTP Device.<O
<O
gaz25: Good job! You may be on to something. (First remove the battery) Try using a cotton swab lightly dampened with water to clean the contacts. If it is really dirty, you can try using a small eraser to rub over the contacts. Just make sure no eraser particles are left over. After cleaning, make sure the contacts are dry and clean by wiping them with a lint free cloth.
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  #40  
Old 04-22-2008, 03:48 PM
ashtanga ashtanga is offline
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...yep tried that and yep tried that too Zen Chick!

Nothing happens in Device Manager when I plug the Zen in, nothing to dig any deeper into.

Tony...
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