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  #21  
Old 04-03-2008, 06:57 AM
kevo777 kevo777 is offline
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Yes, but how often do you convert something to WAV and *not* use the PCM codec? It's not like the MP4 or 3GP containers where a plethora of codecs are very often interchanged. And not to stray off topic, but I just don't agree that converting anything to WAV/PCM degrades quality. PCM is a bit-for-bit representation of the source. That's why WAV files are typically 10 times or more the size of lossy counterparts.
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  #22  
Old 04-03-2008, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevo777 View Post
Yes, but how often do you convert something to WAV and *not* use the PCM codec?
LOL, indeed. My point was that the conversion to PCM itself will result in a degradation. Not much, but it'll happen.


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It's not like the MP4 or 3GP containers where a plethora of codecs are very often interchanged. And not to stray off topic, but I just don't agree that converting anything to WAV/PCM degrades quality. PCM is a bit-for-bit representation of the source.
Well, feel free to disagree. But the "source" in this case is what I call a "thinned" source, and if it was merely a matter of taking the "raw audio" from an mp3, why even use ordinary MP3-decoders, you could just as well use a wav-decoder (hence me mentioning using the wav-container as a container for a lossy format).


Quote:
That's why WAV files are typically 10 times or more the size of lossy counterparts.
Yes, but usually the wav/bwf/pcm is from a source that has not been thinned. Meaning, that the wav/bwf is the original audio, bit for bit, and not after 10/11ths have been tossed out. Btw. It's worth mentioning, that from a production standpoint, wav is'nt X times bigger, it's the mp3 that is smaller. It might seem like it doesn't matter, but since we're talking about what we do, the real original is the "standard size", so to speak.

Anywho, you do have a point, and as anyone will tell you, after the mp3 has been decoded it feeds raw pcm to the d/a-converter.
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  #23  
Old 05-10-2008, 09:26 AM
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Default Zen and iTunes

Hello.

I've just bought my Zen and I want to synchronize my Zen with it because i'm used to iTunes (I've an iPod also) but when I connect my Zen to the computer itunes doesn't recognize it. Zen appears in my computer and I can put music on it but I want to manage it with iTunes.
Does anyone know how to fix it?

Greets


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  #24  
Old 05-10-2008, 10:25 AM
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I'm not too familiar with iTunes, but keep in mind even though the Zen supports AAC/M4A audio files, any protected tracks embedded with DRM will not play on the Zen.

Thread of interest.

Oh.....please watch the double posts.
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  #25  
Old 05-10-2008, 01:33 PM
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iTunes will not work with any player other than iPods. That's the way Apple intended it, so I doubt that'll ever change.

Personally, I think you'd be better off trying a different sync manager for your Zen, since you have a number of choices. You can use Windows Media Player 10 or 11 (11 preferred), or WinAmp, or MusicMatch Jukebox, or MediaMonkey, or Creative's MediaSource (though, personally, I can't stand MediaSource), or even Windows Explorer.
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  #26  
Old 05-10-2008, 02:22 PM
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Well as for as I know itunes should work with creative zen because many other devices work with itunes aswell (like fake ipod touch/nano other mp3 players etc).

Thank you for your advice.
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  #27  
Old 05-10-2008, 06:58 PM
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I believe the Zen will work with iTunes (by supporting the non-protected files), but just not with the iTunes store and syncing. Oh, and be careful syncing two different devices with iTunes. I've heard you can have issue with duplicates showing up. Good luck.
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  #28  
Old 05-11-2008, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyRS View Post
I believe the Zen will work with iTunes (by supporting the non-protected files), but just not with the iTunes store and syncing. Oh, and be careful syncing two different devices with iTunes. I've heard you can have issue with duplicates showing up. Good luck.
Eh i know that the Zen should work with itunes. I don't know why you posted because I want to know why doesn't itunes recognize my zen.
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  #29  
Old 05-11-2008, 09:52 AM
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Did you only read the first sentence? I was confirming what you posted before about the Zen working with iTunes. As for the rest, I posted because I'm trying to help. It may not help in the direct manner you were expecting, but it may have in an indirect fashion or for anyone else that comes across this thread. This may not be the best place to be asking about iTunes, all things considered here with the sites' name and all.
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  #30  
Old 05-11-2008, 12:18 PM
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There is a hack (which I really can't remember at the moment) that allows the Samsung P2 to work w/iTunes. Out of the box the ZEN is not compatible with the program. It states on the creative website that you can use AAC encoded music, it does not say it can be used with iTunes. iTunes is NOT COMPATIBLE WITH THE ZEN!!!

PS: mudkip - getting nasty with someone trying to help you is really not such a swift idea.

Any other issues and maybe you should look through the forums on creative's own website:
http://forums.creative.com/creativelabs/?region=CLI
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  #31  
Old 05-11-2008, 12:50 PM
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Yeah it is a little confusing. It "supports" iTunes in the way of some file formats, but not with the syncing or DRM.

Oh, I have read about a program called iTunes Sync that (is supposed to have MTP support soon) allows UMS devices to sync to iTunes. I'm not sure of how good it is though.
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  #32  
Old 05-11-2008, 08:23 PM
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I'd be afraid to try it as apple may cause my player to "self-destruct" after syncing!!! I won't go back,............ YOU CAN'T MAKE ME!!!!
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  #33  
Old 05-12-2008, 02:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyRS View Post
I believe the Zen will work with iTunes (by supporting the non-protected files), but just not with the iTunes store and syncing. Oh, and be careful syncing two different devices with iTunes. I've heard you can have issue with duplicates showing up. Good luck.
It seems you will need to use the Creative Media player to migrate any iTunesPlus (non-DRM aac files) to the player. I attempted this with Winamp 5.3.1 Pro edition and got nowhere. I am "told" by the media player software that it moved 195 files but I will be darned if I can find them anywhere - the media application will not let me browse them so I am at a loss to be able to track them down and see what happened.......
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  #34  
Old 05-12-2008, 01:01 PM
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The last time I remember seeing iTunes, there was a setting you had to enable to convert selected files (non-drm) in the library to MP3's (in Preferences if I remember correctly). Is this not available anymore? Why couldn't you essentially just convert using this method? Then you can load onto virtually any MP3 player. I believe you can also burn selected .aac files to a CD and then rip to .mp3's.

EDIT: Yeah, like this.
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  #35  
Old 05-12-2008, 01:06 PM
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Yup,.... just burn and re-rip to your library as mp3 and save the headache cause you can't convert DRM'ed tracks. Overrides the copyright protection and is even better if you use CDRW's. This way you get to reuse and not waste cd's you may not listen to.
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  #36  
Old 05-14-2008, 04:39 PM
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Or just go around the whole burning to CD route and look up programs like soundtaxi or tunebite. Plays tracks back through your soundcard and records them straight from there. In theory there should be a lose in sound quality, but I personally was not able to hear a difference from the original. This will get you around any DRM issues.

Also, as I'm sure people here know, no matter how you re-encode your music (via burning to CD, a program like soudtaxi/tunebite, itunes, etc.) by going from one lossy format to another (AAC to MP3) you are effectively compressing your data twice and due to the difference is compression algorithms you will end up compressing areas of your music that were not previously when in the other lossy format. You will hear a noticable decrease in sound quality unless you either have bad hearing or bad headphones, or you are encoding from rather high bitrates (lose is still there just not noticable). If your device plays AAC than the BEST choice would be to use soundtaxi/tunebite to remove DRM from those AAC tracks and save the files at the same bitrate and lossy format (AAC). If your player does not support AAC (or whatever loosy format you have) than the best bet would be to either rerip the files from the original media (CD) or from an equivalent lossless format. If that is not possible, and you absolutely have to go from one lossy format to another, I suggest using something other than itunes, particularly for AAC to MP3. This is because iTunes is notoriously known for its very poor MP3 encoder. Do some searching on it and you'll find tests that show how bad it is compared to others. LAME is considered one of the best out there. There are others as well.

Hope that helps someone.
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  #37  
Old 05-14-2008, 05:43 PM
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Soundtaxi/Tunebite are some criminals that want to make money off the DRM dilemma, and their apps provide even worse quality (analog hole) than Apple's "legal" way of circumventing DRM by burning the tracks to an audio CD.

Don't give your money to these con artists - google for "hymn project" or "myfairtunes" for iTunes DRM removal. (And for "FU4WM" for WMA DRM removal.) That's how it's done the right way.

Of course, the really right thing to do is to never support the whole DRM mafia, and only buy un-crippled music, or good old CDs.
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  #38  
Old 05-16-2008, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfkt View Post
Soundtaxi/Tunebite are some criminals that want to make money off the DRM dilemma, and their apps provide even worse quality (analog hole) than Apple's "legal" way of circumventing DRM by burning the tracks to an audio CD.

Don't give your money to these con artists - google for "hymn project" or "myfairtunes" for iTunes DRM removal. (And for "FU4WM" for WMA DRM removal.) That's how it's done the right way.

Of course, the really right thing to do is to never support the whole DRM mafia, and only buy un-crippled music, or good old CDs.
I hear no difference between the burning to CD way or the analog hole. I've tested it many times now. I don't see how it would sound better one way or the other to be honest.

Who said I gave anyone money? Seeing as I hear no difference between the two methods, and one is cheaper for me than the other (free vs. CD-R's) I think I'm doing the right thing by not spending more money to unlock my DRM material.

I've heard of myfairtunes and such, but I thought I read they were shut down? Maybe due to the fact that it actually is STRIPPING DRM from the files and could be consider far more illegal. I believe that is why they have been under far more scrutiny. I have a feeling that if this method is brought to court you will have no real chance of defending yourself. But if you care to explain the legality of the method I'm all ears.

I agree with you on what is best. Clearly I understand the analog hole is not the best method, but I find it produces an excellent copy and so far seems to be considered more "legal" than stripping DRM. I also have to say I don't know why you continually reply to people in a hostile tone. I've been reading your replies the last few days and I find you come off a bit smug. If that isn't your intent I apologize, but perhaps you could dial down the opinions and attitude a bit and realize that just because you say something doesn't mean it is fact or the only opinion worth listening too. I understand you are a long time member and admin here, and I've seen this behaviour in many other forums I frequent. I don't say this to be mean, but perhaps you don't notice the way your replies come off when typed. Or perhaps your just a grumpy person?

I do not agree with you that these people are con-artists. It's pretty clear what the programs do. They aren't tricking anyone and I don't think they are trying too.

I have been purchasing CD's for many years now to avoid DRM. Clearly the progress we've made over the years really hasn't been much progress at all. Worse sound, closed systems, and encrypted music. All for the sake of convenience. Clearly big changes need to be made to bring back quality along with the convenience of the digital age.
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  #39  
Old 06-29-2008, 05:33 AM
mgb mgb is offline
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Default does zen work with itunes

Hi i am new to this. so please bear with me. I am considering getting a creative zen 8gb to replace my aging (and failing) 4th gen ipod. does the Zen work with itunes as I have read? and more importantly can I make playlists which will play in the order I want and not alphabetically, either by using itunes playlists or making them in the creative software.

regards

mark
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  #40  
Old 06-29-2008, 01:47 PM
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Thread merged with main iTunes thread.

Mark: Check out this thread for your answer.

Yes, playlists can be made and used in order you set the songs either with Creative's software or other software like WMP or MediaMonkey; which ever you like.

Enjoy the Zen and welcome to ABI.
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