T10 video conversion settings

[placebo]

if you want to use third-party software to perform video conversions, then you'll discover that "the T10 video format" (*.svi) is highly sensitive to conversion settings (or video specifications) and it is extremely difficult to reproduce the settings, e.g. with versatile popular conversion tools such as SUPER© - by eRightSoft.

when you start Emodio software it asks you to update/upgrade. After the update, Emodio's version is 1.0.8.8 (or 6.0.8.8), Sept 2010. It will also ask you to update (=install) a codec pack: MyFree Codec Pack 09c beta.

the original test video thx to torrent is

General
Complete name                    : ***.avi
Format                           : AVI
Format/Info                      : Audio Video Interleave
File size                        : 702 MiB
Duration                         : 2h 33mn
Overall bit rate                 : 641 Kbps
Movie name                       : ***
Director                         : ***
Subject                          : ***
Writing application              : Nandub v1.0rc2
Writing library                  : Nandub build 1852/release

Video
ID                               : 0
Format                           : MPEG-4 Visual
Format settings, BVOP            : 1
Format settings, QPel            : No
Format settings, GMC             : No warppoints
Format settings, Matrix          : Default (H.263)
Muxing mode                      : Packed bitstream
Codec ID                         : DX50
Codec ID/Hint                    : DivX 5
Duration                         : 2h 33mn
Bit rate                         : 494 Kbps
Width                            : 480 pixels
Height                           : 208 pixels
Display aspect ratio             : 2.35:1
Frame rate                       : 25.000 fps
Color space                      : YUV
Chroma subsampling               : 4:2:0
Bit depth                        : 8 bits
Scan type                        : Progressive
Compression mode                 : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)               : 0.198
Stream size                      : 540 MiB (77%)
Writing library                  : DivX 5.2.1 (WaffleDay) (UTC 2004-09-08)

Audio
ID                               : 1
Format                           : MPEG Audio
Format version                   : Version 1
Format profile                   : Layer 3
Mode                             : Joint stereo
Mode extension                   : MS Stereo
Codec ID                         : 55
Codec ID/Hint                    : MP3
Duration                         : 2h 33mn
Bit rate mode                    : Variable
Bit rate                         : 128 Kbps
Channel(s)                       : 2 channels
Sampling rate                    : 48.0 KHz
Compression mode                 : Lossy
Stream size                      : 147 MiB (21%)
Alignment                        : Aligned on interleaves
Interleave, duration             : 24 ms (0.60 video frame)
Interleave, preload duration     : 468 ms
Writing library                  : LAME3.96r
Encoding settings                : -m j -V 4 -q 3 -lowpass 17.5 --abr 128

And this converts to, with Emodio's setting "High Quality":

General
Complete name                    : ***.svi
Format                           : AVI
Format/Info                      : Audio Video Interleave
File size                        : 1.04 GiB
Duration                         : 2h 32mn
Overall bit rate                 : 971 Kbps
Writing application              : SSGP

Video
ID                               : 0
Format                           : MPEG-4 Visual
Format profile                   : Simple@L1
Format settings, BVOP            : No
Format settings, QPel            : No
Format settings, GMC             : No warppoints
Format settings, Matrix          : Default (H.263)
Codec ID                         : XVID
Codec ID/Hint                    : XviD
Duration                         : 2h 32mn
Bit rate                         : 831 Kbps
Width                            : 320 pixels
Height                           : 240 pixels
Display aspect ratio             : 4:3
Frame rate                       : 30.000 fps
Color space                      : YUV
Chroma subsampling               : 4:2:0
Bit depth                        : 8 bits
Scan type                        : Progressive
Compression mode                 : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)               : 0.361
Stream size                      : 909 MiB (86%)
Writing library                  : XviD 1.1.0 Beta2 (UTC 2005-04-04)

Audio
ID                               : 1
Format                           : MPEG Audio
Format version                   : Version 1
Format profile                   : Layer 3
Codec ID                         : 55
Codec ID/Hint                    : MP3
Duration                         : 2h 32mn
Bit rate mode                    : Constant
Bit rate                         : 128 Kbps
Channel(s)                       : 2 channels
Sampling rate                    : 44.1 KHz
Compression mode                 : Lossy
Stream size                      : 140 MiB (13%)
Alignment                        : Split accross interleaves
Interleave, duration             : 33 ms (1.00 video frame)

Note that the video, although its display dimensions has decreased, has increased in file size! There are other tools ("third-party") which support the conversion to T10-compatible *.SVI files, so let's compare..

[CrowdAds]

[placebo]

jSVIcoder converts to, with High Quality setting:

General
Complete name                    : ***.svi
Format                           : AVI
Format/Info                      : Audio Video Interleave
File size                        : 958 MiB
Duration                         : 2h 33mn
Overall bit rate                 : 875 Kbps
Writing application              : MEncoder Sherpya-SVN-r29355-4.5.0
Writing library                  : MPlayer

Video
ID                               : 0
Format                           : MPEG-4 Visual
Format profile                   : Advanced Simple@L5
Format settings, BVOP            : No
Format settings, QPel            : No
Format settings, GMC             : No warppoints
Format settings, Matrix          : Default (MPEG)
Codec ID                         : XVID
Codec ID/Hint                    : XviD
Duration                         : 2h 33mn
Bit rate                         : 734 Kbps
Width                            : 320 pixels
Height                           : 140 pixels
Display aspect ratio             : 2.25:1
Frame rate                       : 30.000 fps
Color space                      : YUV
Chroma subsampling               : 4:2:0
Bit depth                        : 8 bits
Scan type                        : Progressive
Compression mode                 : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)               : 0.546
Stream size                      : 804 MiB (84%)
Writing library                  : XviD 1.2.1 (UTC 2008-12-04)

Audio
ID                               : 1
Format                           : MPEG Audio
Format version                   : Version 1
Format profile                   : Layer 3
Mode                             : Joint stereo
Mode extension                   : MS Stereo
Codec ID                         : 55
Codec ID/Hint                    : MP3
Duration                         : 2h 33mn
Bit rate mode                    : Constant
Bit rate                         : 128 Kbps
Channel(s)                       : 2 channels
Sampling rate                    : 44.1 KHz
Compression mode                 : Lossy
Stream size                      : 140 MiB (15%)
Alignment                        : Aligned on interleaves
Interleave, duration             : 26 ms (0.78 video frame)
Interleave, preload duration     : 522 ms

The encoding is rather fast!

[placebo]

XMedia Recode has conversion profiles for all Samsung products, incl. the Samsung YP-T10. When you choose the conversion profile, in theory it is still possible to modify the preset settings.. ive never tested this. The conversion is rather slow (30mins.) and this is the result:

General
Complete name                    : ***.svi
Format                           : AVI
Format/Info                      : Audio Video Interleave
File size                        : 712 MiB
Duration                         : 2h 33mn
Overall bit rate                 : 650 Kbps
Movie name                       : ***
Director                         : ***
Subject                          : ***
Writing application              : Lavf53.10.0

Video
ID                               : 0
Format                           : MPEG-4 Visual
Format profile                   : Simple@L3
Format settings, BVOP            : No
Format settings, QPel            : No
Format settings, GMC             : No warppoints
Format settings, Matrix          : Default (H.263)
Codec ID                         : XVID
Codec ID/Hint                    : XviD
Duration                         : 2h 33mn
Bit rate                         : 510 Kbps
Width                            : 320 pixels
Height                           : 240 pixels
Display aspect ratio             : 4:3
Frame rate                       : 25.000 fps
Color space                      : YUV
Chroma subsampling               : 4:2:0
Bit depth                        : 8 bits
Scan type                        : Progressive
Compression mode                 : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)               : 0.266
Stream size                      : 558 MiB (78%)
Writing library                  : XviD 64

Audio
ID                               : 1
Format                           : MPEG Audio
Format version                   : Version 1
Format profile                   : Layer 3
Codec ID                         : 55
Codec ID/Hint                    : MP3
Duration                         : 2h 33mn
Bit rate mode                    : Constant
Bit rate                         : 128 Kbps
Channel(s)                       : 2 channels
Sampling rate                    : 44.1 KHz
Compression mode                 : Lossy
Stream size                      : 140 MiB (20%)
Alignment                        : Aligned on interleaves
Interleave, duration             : 26 ms (0.65 video frame)

[placebo]

none of the three converters is able to embed (hardcode) the subtitles (*.SRT, ..) into the *.SVI-file. there are only few conversion tools which can do such a thing .. but they dont convert to *.SVI.

if you have tested (AVI+SRT => working SVI with embedded subs) it successfully, please share your experience here.

[placebo]

Wow what a deserted place this forum section is, YP-T10 after 5.0 years lol

I still use my T10 to great effect .. and i am writing to confirm that XMedia Recode 3.1.4.1 indeed produces 100% compatible playable *.SVI files for our mp3-player. Great FREE software!

[lebellium]

Hum I'm sorry you did such a monologue in this thread

You can always count on me to talk about recent and older Samsung DAPs but unfortunately I don't own a T10 yet, still missing in my collection (but I know it quite well as my contact at Samsung lent it to me several times) and I fear that most T10 owners now use another DAP or a smartphone and are no longer interested in watching movies on the 2" screen of the T10...

[placebo]

Yeah i know that people have moved on. But i like my cute T10, such timeless beautiful gadget. Battery is still going strong and i am fond of the quality hehe.
Thanks for saying hi!

I'll be back once in a while .. to see how much more this forum gets deserted

Bye!! Au revoir.

[pybcu]

It is not that people have moved on (at least I don't think so) - it is just that all have a setup that works for them by know, and noone thinks a new firmware will be released, no no need to speculate / dream about all the new features that would be nice anymore :-))

I really don't find it hard to reproduce the settings required for the T10 - after all the required parameters have been laid out in detail in previous posts - it boils down to not using B frames and mp3 audio when using xvid. Put it into an avi and then rename to svi - no black magic.

I personally hate those "magic box" programs that claim to convert everything - I personally run the encoder manually with the parameters I want, and not with whatever settings a program wants. If I for example already have mp3 audio, I don't want it to reencode the audio again, stuff like that that at least first generations of those programs always ignored.
In similar terms, the given duration is irrelevant without comparing the actual quality of the encode in both visual quality as well as in compression ratio.
Also your first two examples did convert 25fps to 30fps - a complete waste of bits.

And creating svi is not a requirement, as this is just really avi renamed to svi - so anything that lets you configure xvid's encoding settings wrt b-frames will do the trick. Just let it output avi and then manually rename to svi. Samsung's "invention" is limited to a new extension and strict limitations on what encoding features to use (no b frames).

But I guess you're right - more and more people have smartphones with large screens - so why bother with converting your video to a 320x240 screen, when you can watch the original, unconverted one on your phone...

[lebellium]

Originally Posted by pybcu

It is not that people have moved on (at least I don't think so) - it is just that all have a setup that works for them by know, and noone thinks a new firmware will be released, no no need to speculate / dream about all the new features that would be nice anymore :-))

That's obviously your case: you hadn't posted here since 2009. Fortunately we have some more regular and loyal members otherwise ABI would have shut down since then. But I don't want to make you feel guilty
You and all other T10 users should still come here regularly as you never know what can happen. See what's going on with Rockbox on YP-R0, YP-R1 and YP-Z5 while these models have been discontinued for a while.
Maybe one day Rockbox will be ported to T10 but you all will miss it because of that

That being said, I still believe most users have moved on. I know there are some T10 lovers here but objectively it is an average player with touchpad, that's not a dream device you would use for years like the Cowon X5 for instance.
I would speculate most users bought the T10 in 2007-2008 and then used it for 1-2 years and then they bought a smartphone

[pybcu]

Originally Posted by lebellium

That's obviously your case: you hadn't posted here since 2009. Fortunately we have some more regular and loyal members otherwise ABI would have shut down since then.

If the site was only about the T10, then sure, but I wouldn't feel bad about it even then :-) after all there is no knews to be expected. It does what it should do and does that really nice.
And I don't need rockbox or anything similar - what the T10 firmware should have added is a timer/alarm and an option to turnoff the shutdown sound in sleepmode :-) And be less picky about aac, but that only affects stuff I didn't create myself, so I blame buggy encoders.

That being said, I still believe most users have moved on. I know there are some T10 lovers here but objectively it is an average player with touchpad, that's not a dream device you would use for years like the Cowon X5 for instance.

Very strange that you cite the Cowon X5 as superior example. I can see myself using the T10 for another 5 years (or as long as the device itself still works), but I very very likely would have sold a Cowon X5 if I had owned one. Too bulky, too heavy, laughable screen resolution, no sane navigation and the like. For a device like that, you really need another firmware to run it. The big capacity isn't really worth it, if the battery doesn't last long enough to listen to it. If I have to plug the device in for some juice, I could also put new files on it - but even with only 4GB of storage in my player, I don't find myself replacing the set of songs everytime I recharge it. Only plus would be the good audio quality - but that is so subjective matter, and when people say "I heard a difference with my 600$ headphones" this is missing the point. I want a portable player to be on the road, not to enjoy music in my living room. I also don't have so much cash that I would be comfortable cramming such pricey headphones into my pockets or bags (not to mention that most of those headphones are big and cannot be put into your pockets anyway). The T10 is superior audio quality to ipods and other players I compared it to with the stock headphones that come with the devices, and that is what really counts for me. (and I only tried ipods for reference, I never considered getting one of those and be locked in to iTunes or similar). Cowon X5 wasn't in the list of players I checked out, but I would not have considered it anyway because of the size and price at that time.

I would speculate most users bought the T10 in 2007-2008 and then used it for 1-2 years and then they bought a smartphone

While many surely have bought a smartphone, my guess is that more would now let their bulky Cowon at home, than the trusty and tiny T10 :-P - at least that is what I would have done.
After all, I can use bluetooth to hook them both up, so I don't have to take off headphones when answering a call and dig out the phone from the pocket. It is a good accessory that blends in very nicely. Even if not used, it doesn't add weight or bulk, and that is so great about it. Yes, I do love my T10 :-)