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  #41  
Old 07-20-2008, 07:17 AM
xikk xikk is offline
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Its such a shame X-Fi on this new Zen X-Fi isn't really the real deal X-Fi. Hmm Enzoten, is the sound quality the same as the previous Zen? Im also curious why you'll prefer Zen X-Fi over Cowon despite the heavy criticism of its wifi, x-fi, etc... How saddening to hear that MSN, Yahoo and Gtalk are all just very convincing rumours.
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  #42  
Old 07-20-2008, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Cipher7 View Post
How is there no yahoo, gtalk, or msn? I thought this was (heavily) advertised?
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Originally Posted by EnzoTen View Post
Heavily Rumored.
According to Creative's site:
Quote:
Stay in touch on the go
Stay connected with friends on Yahoo Messenger or Windows Live Messenger on your wireless MP3 player<sup>1</sup>.


<sup>1</sup>Only at region-specific public wireless LAN hotspots.
This certainly makes it sound as if one should be able to connect to MSN or Yahoo IM services. Is it possible that these services are merely being carried over Creative's network? If not, then these services may be added with a firmware update.

Still, given this, and the less-than-stellar reviews of its X-Fi emulation (yes, it is software-emulated - there is no X-Fi chip in the player) and other features, I have to say I'm severely disappointed.
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  #43  
Old 07-20-2008, 06:01 PM
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Well I don't mean to be rude, but can someone answer if mpeg-4 support is pretty much saying it can play avi files? Or does it have to be in mp4 format? (which means I have to convert)...
Short answer: Yes, it can play MPEG-4 just like its older siblings.

Long, techie answer: It depends on the container used. DivX and XviD both use MPEG-4 as their video stream. However, to ensure compatibility with the X-Fi, the audio stream must be in MP3 format. Not to worry, though. Most DivX and XviD files use the MPEG-4/MP3 combination.
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  #44  
Old 07-20-2008, 06:18 PM
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Does it sound better than the Sony S61X?
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  #45  
Old 07-20-2008, 07:04 PM
Ninety-9 Ninety-9 is offline
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Yea, I'm still a little confused myself. I've been racking myself to find really decent SQ from an MP3 player (30+GB). I figured I'd wait for the Zen X-Fi so I could play all of my cards.

OK, the sound enhancements (although effective), turns out they're..well, weird and essentially not necessarily for someone who uses good speakers/phones. It's another SRS WOW.

Here's what I'm unclear on. First, I hear the SQ is almost on the level of the D2, then I hear it's only slightly better than the current Zen. If you are listening to a high-quality track (ok, let's say 320kbps MP3), on a range of different players, how do they stack up in the SQ department, with no enhancements? Maybe you could even compare it to some players that I have heard, like the Zune and Fuze.

Here's my impression based on the reviews on here (I'm only picking out a few), correct me if you have a different impression.

1. D2
2. X-Fi
3. Zune
4. Fuze
5. ZVM
.
.
.
9. Zen
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  #46  
Old 07-20-2008, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Ninety-9 View Post
Here's my impression based on the reviews on here (I'm only picking out a few), correct me if you have a different impression.

1. D2
2. X-Fi
3. Zune
4. Fuze
All of these sound good but to say that one is better than the other comes down to personal preference. Most people will not be able to tell the difference. Too much emphasis is put on sound quality- buy the one you find will have the best feature set for you. They all sound very good- i have to really do some critical listening with a $500+ set of hedphones in order to tell the difference. Even then, the differences are so slight that is unfair to call one better than the other- i wouldn't say one is better than the other just ever so slightly different. If you are not using a very high end set of headphones it wont matter anyway.

Buy what you like based on form factor, features, and build quality.
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  #47  
Old 07-20-2008, 10:01 PM
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do you think the some future firmware down the road will contain a browser?
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  #48  
Old 07-21-2008, 02:01 AM
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do you think the some future firmware down the road will contain a browser?
Is there any of the major issues that you think a firmware update will permanently fix?

Right now I think that if they were capable of integrating the SD card properly they would have done so, but I guess some design flaw keeps them from doing so (what reason woud they have to screw it up at the second player in a row)

With the chat programm, I'm afraid they didn't program their own program for fun, either they couldn't get a decent client to run, it would have cost them millions, or it's all part of their plan to get all of our personal information and eventually rule the world...

And doesn't a browser use loads of RAM?/CPU Power?
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  #49  
Old 07-21-2008, 03:00 AM
kkalinow kkalinow is offline
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then what are some things that they can fix with the firmware?

i ordered one from creative's site and the more i look up about it, the more i want to cancel my back order.
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  #50  
Old 07-21-2008, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by kkalinow View Post
do you think the some future firmware down the road will contain a browser?
Chat is a bad feature, a browser would be a terrible addition.
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  #51  
Old 07-21-2008, 10:10 AM
flatten the skyline flatten the skyline is offline
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To be honest, if the SD integration was good, I'd buy this thing right off the shelf even if the sound was ordinary, without WiFi, without movie capability, without that large screen and the speaker is one thing I'd miss. But as I see it, there is no 32GB +32GB(SDHC) Flash based player out there that does that job, or am I mistaken?

back to what I said before, I guess what they CAN fix would be improved battery life due to smarter power management, improved X-fi emulation (or at least they said they did that) and maybe some bugfixes (I don't knoew if they need that, but I just finished S.T.A.L.K.E.R., so I see bugs everywhere I go). They could change the main menu and shit I guess... But who am I to judge?
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  #52  
Old 07-21-2008, 11:00 AM
Ninety-9 Ninety-9 is offline
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Originally Posted by EnzoTen View Post
All of these sound good but to say that one is better than the other comes down to personal preference. Most people will not be able to tell the difference. Too much emphasis is put on sound quality- buy the one you find will have the best feature set for you. They all sound very good- i have to really do some critical listening with a $500+ set of hedphones in order to tell the difference. Even then, the differences are so slight that is unfair to call one better than the other- i wouldn't say one is better than the other just ever so slightly different. If you are not using a very high end set of headphones it wont matter anyway.

Buy what you like based on form factor, features, and build quality.
I would say there's a difference. For the record, my player spends more time in my car hooked directly to a JL amp and a set of $600 Boston components. I wouldn't rate myself an audiophile, but I'm still pretty particular and I know that my Sansa e200 sounds like garbage, and for the most part, so does the ipod.

I've also noted that despite how much I liked my ZVM, the Sansa Fuze and Zune surprized the crap out of me when I heard them (using the same set of headphones).

Honestly, if Cowon could make a 32GB D2 at a somewhat competitive price, I would be in on that. I think my selection is down to the X-fi and Zune80 with me leaning towards the form factor of the X-fi. 2 things would chase me away from the X-Fi: 1. IF the SQ is no better than the regular Zen (not to mention the enhancements are already useless) and 2. the chat feature is a broken waste of time and space program like much of the already broken firmware.

Last edited by Ninety-9; 07-21-2008 at 01:37 PM.
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  #53  
Old 07-21-2008, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by flatten the skyline View Post
Right now I think that if they were capable of integrating the SD card properly they would have done so, but I guess some design flaw keeps them from doing so (what reason woud they have to screw it up at the second player in a row)
Actually, I think they are capable of doing so. I don't believe there are any "design flaws" holding them back from implementing. I just think Creative is looking at it differently. Maybe they don't want people being able to "expand" the internal library or use any of its features because it would make a larger capacity model more attractive. If Creative were to realize this as a mistake with the Zen, I think they would have addressed it by now with new firmware or at least with the X-Fi. So, I believe we are past them recognizing it as a "mistake". Creative has had plenty of chances to change this if they wanted. The Zen has been out now for over 6 months and the X-Fi, being new, has no change either.

To me there are two major issues with the SD card:

1. External storage integration into the internal library.
2. The use of internal features (like bookmarks, zooming, resume playback, etc.) on external storage.

Having the contents of the SD card integrate into the internal library database can be completely looked at as a user preference. Just because the Zen does not behave in this way, doesn't mean the Zen cannot handle the files and can debatably fall within their claims of "expandable" media. If Creative stands to not address this in terms of not being an issue or added feature, then I see no reason for them to choose to do so if that is their vision of how the Zen should work.

However, with that said. I completely disagree with Creative in terms of deciding to at least not being able to allow the use any of the Zen's features/capabilities on compatible files stored on the external media. To me, this issue completely goes against being able to call using the SD card as "expandable" or "added" content.

From Creative website on the Zen:

Quote:
Even expand your portable music, video or photo collection by adding additional content through the convenient SD memory slot.
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Originally Posted by Ninety-9 View Post
IF the SQ is no better than the regular Zen (not to mention the enhancements are already useless)
There should really not be any SQ differences (assuming no enhancements activated like EQ or X-Fi and using the same phones) since the Zen and the Zen X-Fi most likely use the same SoC..... except that I have heard that the Zen X-Fi may be a tad louder set at the same volume level.
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  #54  
Old 07-21-2008, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Ninety-9 View Post
I would say there's a difference. For the record, my player spends more time in my car hooked directly to a JL amp and a set of $600 Boston components. I wouldn't rate myself an audiophile, but I'm still pretty particular and I know that my Sansa e200 sounds like garbage, and for the most part, so does the ipod.
I was speaking from those 4 listed, of course there is a big difference between them an the e200. Even with a 600 set of speakers it would be very difficult to call one of the above mentioned better than the other.
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  #55  
Old 07-21-2008, 02:44 PM
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Hmmm. Well, thanks for letting me know. I've really been anticipating the new X-Fi and despite all of the claims, it seems they leave much to be desired. If these things ever get to the freaking store, I'd really love to take a good look at the software.
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  #56  
Old 07-21-2008, 07:51 PM
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Maybe they don't want people being able to "expand" the internal library or use any of its features because it would make a larger capacity model more attractive.
If that's the case, they should at least give their 32GB Version SD implementation, because THERE SIMPLY IS NO BIGGER MODEL OUT THERE! I'd hate it so much if they ruin a perfectly good player just because it boosts sales of larger models. And if they ruin the largest version of it, their "flagship", because they prefer to keep people thinking that it is just impossible to implement that card than to admit that they prefer not to for their own selfish reasons. I wish someone would hack the firmware and make it right if they don't want to.
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  #57  
Old 07-21-2008, 09:47 PM
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Is this thing an upgrade over the Zen Vision: M in terms of sound quality and battery life?

I was looking to upgrade because I'm going on vacation soon and my ZVM of 14 months is starting to show wear (battery life decreased, scratches, etc.), but after your review, I'm skeptical to say the least.
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  #58  
Old 07-22-2008, 09:13 AM
flatten the skyline flatten the skyline is offline
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Default maybe you should just keep it!

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Originally Posted by shadow View Post
I was looking to upgrade because I'm going on vacation soon and my ZVM of 14 months is starting to show wear (battery life decreased, scratches, etc.), but after your review, I'm skeptical to say the least.
If you are otherwise satisfied with your ZVM, replacement Batteries go for a song on eBay. Just find someone to help you with replacing. (I replaced my ipod screen by myself, and I'm a geologist, so anyone with skilled hands can do it.

I'd wait too to get a 64GB Flash based DAP in a few years, but since my ipod is toast as far as I see it I can't.
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  #59  
Old 07-22-2008, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by flatten the skyline View Post
If that's the case, they should at least give their 32GB Version SD implementation, because THERE SIMPLY IS NO BIGGER MODEL OUT THERE!
If they did that, then it would probably be that way for all the models since there isn't a difference with firmware between them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flatten the skyline View Post
..... because they prefer to keep people thinking that it is just impossible to implement that card than to admit that they prefer not to for their own selfish reasons.
I don't think they have commented at all on the SD card issues, let alone prefer to have people think that it can't be done. No one really knows but them. Like I said, I don't think they would have any problem implementing IF they really wanted to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flatten the skyline View Post
I wish someone would hack the firmware and make it right if they don't want to.
Making it "right" would be subjective. Some people like to not have the cards contents integrated. But yeah, it would be nice to have the choice. I would just love to just be able to take advantage of the internal capabilities with media on an SD card.

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Originally Posted by flatten the skyline View Post
I'd wait too to get a 64GB Flash based DAP in a few years
I'm expecting 64GB DAP's much sooner than a few years from now.
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Last edited by BobbyRS; 07-22-2008 at 11:09 AM.
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  #60  
Old 07-22-2008, 10:10 AM
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Is this thing an upgrade over the Zen Vision: M in terms of sound quality and battery life?
In terms of battery life, for the most part yes. For audio or video playback without using Wi-Fi or X-Fi..... no. Then again, you don't have those features on the ZVM. As for SQ.... maybe, maybe not. That will most likely depend on the individual. The ZVM is a different kind of DAP; a DAP that is heavily geared towards video playback. It may not have the 16.7m display color (262k), but it has a much better video feature set like more codec and higher resolution support (plus a video out).
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