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  #101  
Old 07-16-2008, 06:41 PM
tamathumper tamathumper is offline
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GRRRRRR @#$%! I just bought my Sansa View (8GB) for $50 and now I'm looking at having to spend the same amount for the @!#$! DLO FM Transmitter! And I don't even really WANT an FM transmitter, but my choices for Sansa are slim to none.

Looking in Wal*Mart, Best Buy and all over the web, there are 99.9% iPod-compatible devices, .09% Zune-compatible devices, and .01% other-compatible devices (including Sansa among them).

This is the closest post I can find to coming up with an iPod-to-Sansa adapter... I'd love to solder something together that would allow me to use even a fraction of the 99.9% of devices out there that are iPod-compatible, just for audio and recharge capability if nothing else :/

Keep up the great work guys... I still don't have quite enough information in the format I need it. Something like (well, you get the idea):

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ... 30
| | |
| \ /
| / \
| | |
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ... 30

Allen
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  #102  
Old 07-25-2008, 01:13 PM
tamathumper tamathumper is offline
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I am currently working on a line level booster, powered by the USB cable itself, that will boost the meager line level output of my Sansa View before feeding it into my DLO TransDock. I will post results, good or bad. The circuit is laid out (props to the very smart gents at headwize.com).

The DLO is an excellent FM transmitter (as FM transmitters go) when fed from the headphone output of the View, but it has nowhere near enough volume when fed from the USB cable.

QUESTION: There is only a standard Sansa USB cable provided with the DLO TransDock, yet it charges AND plays music through this cable, and the cable can also be used to sync the Sansa device with your PC. Sooooo - how does audio and data both travel across a maximum of 4 conductors (not counting the shield which I've read can only be connected on one end). The only two reasonable options are that the Sansa senses it is docked (ala the resistors already discussed above) and switches to sending audio over USB pins 2 and 3 instead of data, OR that is somehow sends the audio over pins 1 and 4 on top of the (now carrier) 5VDC. Everyone's discussion on audio pins deals with the Sansa end of the cable, not the USB end of the cable

Last edited by tamathumper; 07-25-2008 at 09:18 PM.
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  #103  
Old 07-25-2008, 09:45 PM
tamathumper tamathumper is offline
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Here is what I have for matching pinouts (Sansa vs. USB) so far... Can someone verify for me that the Sansa senses it is docked to the TransDock and sends audio over USB pins 2 and 3, or if not HOW it sends the audio?

Sansa View
=========================================
1 - +5V
2 - +5V
3 - GND
4 - USB D+ (green)
5 - USB D- (white)
6 - GND
7 - Video + (unlike e2xx's PWR (via 47k resistor))
8 - Audio R
9 - Audio L
13 - GND
14 - Video +
18 - GND
20 - GND
27 - Audio R (tip)
28 - Audio L (ring)
29 - Audio GND (sleeve)

USB
=======
1 - +5V
2 - D-
3 - D+
4 - GND

Last edited by tamathumper; 07-26-2008 at 07:37 AM.
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  #104  
Old 07-26-2008, 07:27 AM
tamathumper tamathumper is offline
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Oooorrrr, is it sending data to a chip in the TransDock that decodes the MP3 and transmits it? I suppose that would explain why the !@#$! thing costs $50+...
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  #105  
Old 07-28-2008, 02:33 PM
pharaohamps pharaohamps is offline
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by tamathumper View Post
Oooorrrr, is it sending data to a chip in the TransDock that decodes the MP3 and transmits it? I suppose that would explain why the !@#$! thing costs $50+...
No - the secret to the TransDock is the special cable that DLO includes. All the TransDocks are the same except the cables. If you look at the USB end of your Transdock cable, you can see that there are 5 contacts around and in-between the normal 4 USB contacts.

If we number the normal USB contacts 1 2 3 4 like so:

USB
=======
1 - +5V
2 - D-
3 - D+
4 - GND

Then the extra DLO-specific contacts are:

DLO
=======
A - no connection
B - no connection
C - audio GND - dock pins 29 and 25
D - audio R (tip) - dock pin 27
E - audio L (ring) - dock pin 26

so the whole thing looks like:


USB + DLO
===============
A - no connection
1 - +5V
B - no connection
2 - D-
C - audio GND - dock pins 29 and 25
3 - D+
D - audio R (tip) - dock pin 27
4 - GND
E - audio L (ring) - dock pin 26

So what DLO has really done is just given us a very nice dock power + audio breakout cable. The USB functions of the cable are still intact so it can be used with a PC, but if you plug in a Sansa to the Transdock without the DLO cable it will only charge the player, not pass audio to the transmitter.

I'm working on a solution to the Transdock's volume drop when using the dock connector, but I don't know what the Sansa's dock connector output is like. Does anyone know how it compares to the headphone output?
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  #106  
Old 07-29-2008, 02:48 PM
tamathumper tamathumper is offline
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Default Aha!

Thank you! I didn't see those contacts before, but you can be sure I'll look for them tonight.

I'll also start soldering up my line-level booster and let you know how it works... The USB breakout part will be the trickiest part, but it will only take a minimal amount of futzing.
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  #107  
Old 08-03-2008, 04:52 PM
tamathumper tamathumper is offline
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OK, got the booster all designed, except for the connectors... Is there any source for the plug/socket that DLO is using? Maybe on Digikey or Mouser, or...? That would be easier than cutting apart the cable and redirecting the proper lines, and it would preserve the cable!
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  #108  
Old 08-06-2008, 07:50 PM
tamathumper tamathumper is offline
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Uh... anyone? Bueller? I searched all over DigiKey and Mouser but came up empty - but then again I'm not electronically inclined!

Last edited by tamathumper; 08-06-2008 at 08:00 PM.
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  #109  
Old 08-11-2008, 10:57 PM
Stonewall78 Stonewall78 is offline
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Is that sansa connector not the same as the ipod? I know sparkfun caries ipod connectors etc.
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  #110  
Old 08-11-2008, 11:01 PM
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advcomp2019 advcomp2019 is offline
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There is a different pin layout and the one notch is bigger on the side.
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  #111  
Old 08-11-2008, 11:24 PM
Stonewall78 Stonewall78 is offline
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I know the pinout is different but I believe they physically fit. From playing with my Sansa dock a bit I know I know the dock maxes the headphone output and uses the line out to the dock where the volume is controlled internally via the IR remote. The volume wheel then becomes none functional and the volume desplay is actually different in the dock. When I finally get some extra time and my electronics lab back in order I am doing to decode the commands sent to the player from the dock (by using the IR remote) and then if I get enough info (which I am sure there is) develop and interface for ipod docks to the sansa player. If you have both protocols to each player it shouldn't be too hard to develop an interface between the two with a microcontroller.
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  #112  
Old 08-11-2008, 11:29 PM
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advcomp2019 advcomp2019 is offline
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Sounds like it is a good idea. Just hope you get some ideas.
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  #113  
Old 08-11-2008, 11:33 PM
Stonewall78 Stonewall78 is offline
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Ohh I have some ideas, just don't have the time lol
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  #114  
Old 08-23-2008, 11:29 AM
tamathumper tamathumper is offline
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Default Wrong end.

Actually, I'm not looking for connectors for the 30-pin media player end of the cable, I'm looking for the USB end of the cable. The connector on that end has the four normal USB connections inside, and there are 5 more thinner contacts interlaced between them.
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  #115  
Old 10-21-2008, 11:00 AM
tamathumper tamathumper is offline
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Anyone out there know of a source for the USB connectors with the 5 extra pins embedded between the standard 4?

If I can't find them, I'm going to have to abandon this project...
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  #116  
Old 11-21-2008, 01:42 PM
markcm markcm is offline
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Default Sansa e200 series car cable

I haven’t read all the posts in this thread recently but from what I can tell; the discussion is still trying to resolve the pinout and DIY of building a cable for using your Sansa e200 series in the car via the proprietary connector and doing it for a reasonable price.

I have successfully cannibalized a Sanza View Media cable with the RCA out cable and put it on a Sansa e200 connector and it is working very well in my car. The Sansa view media cable connector looked nearly identical although I could see a slight difference and I couldn't get it to work so I went with the connector off my stock e200 usb cable and the RCA cable from the View media cable; I can't confirm at this time whether or not the connector from the View media cable will work although it should. As for finding these connectors, just buy the complete cable off Ebay for about $5ea, the backshell comes off rather easy without destroying it so you can put it back together securely as well.

I took pretty good notes and pictures so when I have time I’ll share the info; at least I can say it’s possible.

I used the griffin dock for finding the pinout and noticed that two of the non-audio pins are jumped which I suspect signals the sansa that it is docked and causes the volume to fix at a set volume when using the Sansa OEM firmware but I don’t believe the Rockbox responds to this, I left it out of my cable but did document which pins it was.

Even though the volume is still variable when using Rockbox, it sounds fantastic with the Line-in in my car; I set the volume to +/-0db which is a pretty good match with my car head unit. I did buy and consider installing a FiiO amplifier in-line but this sounds great now so I’m holding off. The FiiO can be purchased for under $10 from Dealextreme.com; I dissected mine and it looks to be a very well built circuit. The catch here is that these run of 1.5vdc and they are not switched so you would need another voltage divider or DC converter from a switched Acc line to power it; I decided it wasn’t worth it because again, it sounds great now.

The dock’s typically have a de-coupling capacitor on each of the + output lines which I also documented but did not incorporate in my first cable, the only issue here is that you get a POP through the speakers when you turn the sansa off.

Power is another concern, Rockbox doesn’t currently charge but you can use the power line to run the “car mode” which turns your sansa off if the line is tied to switched Acc power. For this, you need a DC to DC converter with 12 Vin 5 Vout; then cut off or adapt to the the video line of the Sansa view cable (ensuring you are wired to the connector correctly, ofcourse.) You can’t really charge with this unless the car is on and you boot to the sansa software; maybe the rockbox group will finalize a safe charging program to include some time? Another option would be to tie this line to an always on source from your car; boot your sansa in the OEM firmware and leave it in the car when you are away but you will no longer have the “car” mode functionality of rockbox. I’m not positive but I think rockbox does sustain the battery when plugged in, it just doesn’t charge (could be wrong here).

No need to fret over a 5v DC converter, if you can’t source something like a Microtrend from mouser or digi-key you can always buy a car cigarette to USB adapter on ebay for about $5 and crack it open, walla, you have your 5 vDC converter.

-Markcm

Last edited by markcm; 11-21-2008 at 03:29 PM. Reason: fix typo, add comment about View cable
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  #117  
Old 11-21-2008, 01:56 PM
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advcomp2019 advcomp2019 is offline
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Markcm, weird, the View and e200 does have the same dock ports. I have the Griffin PowerDock for the Sansas, and it works on the View and e200 series. Are you sure you got Sansa cable?
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  #118  
Old 11-21-2008, 03:17 PM
markcm markcm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by advcomp2019 View Post
Markcm, weird, the View and e200 does have the same dock ports. I have the Griffin PowerDock for the Sansas, and it works on the View and e200 series. Are you sure you got Sansa cable?
Yes and no.

I did have a Sansa View Media cable and fitted it to a Sansa e200 OEM connector from the USB cable that came with my e270. My head was spinning at 1am on a work night when I was doing the pin-out and cable hacking so when I had trouble with my first pass using the VIEW media cable I took a look and noticed some small differences in the connectors. Since it was late and I was tired I just used the e200 stock connector and it worked. The connectors looked very close and I too have noticed that many peripherals are compatible with both the view and the e200.

The complete Sansa View media cable may work but I can’t confirm that at this time.

Last edited by markcm; 11-21-2008 at 03:34 PM.
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  #119  
Old 12-12-2008, 10:46 PM
markcm markcm is offline
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I have posted some pictures of inside the Griffin Dock and the connector I wired up for use in my car. I used the Griffin Dock to find the PIN-OUTs, an original Sansa e200 usb cable for the connector and a Sansa View AV cable from ebay for the RCA molded cable. The last picture in the series shows the pin numbers is used. It looks like what I came up with agrees with tamathumpers pin assigment listed above in post #103 as well.

I have posted the images to my DIY Sansa e200 car carble here: www.e-lectronics.net/infopages/sansa_e200_audiocable/

*UPDATED* I've been using it for a few months now and it works reasonalby well; the sound quality/noise just isn't very good. I also attempted to use my custom cable with a 5v source for charging (rockbox doesn't support charging at this time but will control on/off functions) This did not work on my first attempt (extreme noise) and I have not experimented since. I also did not include the de-coupling capacitors so I occationally get a POP when I plug or unplug the sansa with my stereo on; it's not to bad but the cap's would be a nice imporvement.

I'd like to see rockbox come up with a line out for the e200 series, it seems the OE sansa firmware does it by jumping pins 4 and 7, I'm not sure if it's true line out but when docked in the griffin dock with OE firmware running the e200 bypasses the volume controls and has a seemingly higher/cleaner output than the headphones.

Last edited by markcm; 04-13-2009 at 05:42 PM.
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  #120  
Old 04-05-2009, 07:46 PM
hot_men hot_men is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stonewall78 View Post
I know the pinout is different but I believe they physically fit. From playing with my Sansa dock a bit I know I know the dock maxes the headphone output and uses the line out to the dock where the volume is controlled internally via the IR remote. The volume wheel then becomes none functional and the volume desplay is actually different in the dock. When I finally get some extra time and my electronics lab back in order I am doing to decode the commands sent to the player from the dock (by using the IR remote) and then if I get enough info (which I am sure there is) develop and interface for ipod docks to the sansa player. If you have both protocols to each player it shouldn't be too hard to develop an interface between the two with a microcontroller.
Hello,

Do you find information to do i pod to sansa adaptor.

cool think about i pod it is the I connect you can control you i pod true you car radio. It will be cool to this with a sansa

Thank

Seb
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