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  #1  
Old 11-08-2008, 02:54 AM
ip8g_345 ip8g_345 is offline
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Help Question : Fuze vs. Clip sound quality for FLAC ?

I am considering buying Sansa Fuze since all my collection is FLAC encoded and I am tired of transcoding it all the time.

I've read a lot about excellent sound quality of Sansa Clip and I think I noted (I am not sure) that Fuze use the same processor so the sound quality of Clip and Fuze are equal at least.

Is this true ?

If not, which player is better ? Mayb somebody has done comparisson ? I appreciate a link to it
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  #2  
Old 11-08-2008, 05:53 AM
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These players are identical in terms of sound quality.
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Old 11-08-2008, 06:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ip8g_345 View Post
... If not, which player is better ? Mayb somebody has done comparisson ? I appreciate a link to it
What other requirements besides flac do you need & what's your budget?
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Old 11-08-2008, 07:14 AM
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the Clip is the Fuze with no video. If you'd like video too then get the Fuze..if all your interested in is audio then snag a Clip.

I have a Fuze and love it. Yes the music is the reason why I bought it but I do like the ability to put the odd video on it like tv shows and the odd movie or 2. The video quality is surprisingly good.

SO...it all depends what you want?. Pick yer poison...
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  #5  
Old 11-08-2008, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EnzoTen View Post
These players are identical in terms of sound quality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sansaguy View Post
I have a Fuze and love it. Yes the music is the reason why I bought it but I do like the ability to put the odd video on it like tv shows and the odd movie or 2. The video quality is surprisingly good.
I agree with what they they said.....and I have both players. Another question is how big is your FLAC library, and how much would you want to carry around with you. The biggest capacity Clip right now(at least in US) is 4gb(8gb is coming, but price?) You can find the 4gb Clip for around $60 online. The Fuze....I saw it online for $60 for the 4gb(I paid $80)and the 8gb model is around $85-$90 online.....however, Fuze has the all-important microsdhc slot.....8gb around $20 online, 16gb is out but I don't know price. And since FLAC takes up more space than the "lossy" formats, it comes back to you....how much you want to carry with you? Plus the battery lasts 9-10 more hours with the Fuze than the Clip, in my experience.....so consider these factors, and enjoy whichever you get
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  #6  
Old 11-08-2008, 08:47 AM
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i think you should buy a fuze.
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  #7  
Old 11-08-2008, 12:36 PM
ip8g_345 ip8g_345 is offline
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Default Thanks for responses - going for 8G Fuze

First, thanks for everybody who responded, I really appreciate the information

I have few hundreds CDs in FLAC and I also a subscriber to Rhapsody, so it's important for me that Rhapsody is supported which makes Fuze a great choice. Fuze Silver on Amazon is less then 100$ now (I think 93$ no tax and free shipping) and I'll probably go for 4 or even 8G card.
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  #8  
Old 11-08-2008, 12:39 PM
ip8g_345 ip8g_345 is offline
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Help additional question

Hit enter accidenatlly before asking one additional question (which is not critical for me anyway)

Can card be used to put Rhapsody-To-Go tracks/channels on it or it can be only stored in the main memory ?
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  #9  
Old 11-14-2008, 03:53 PM
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If you really are determined to keep your collection in FLAC format, I gotta think you're a prime candidate for lossyWAV to reduce FLAC size about half. (Mind you, I think it more space-saving-conscious to transcode to Ogg Vorbis q7; I'm certain you'd hear no difference.)

In another thread, http://anythingbutipod.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35101
I wrote
there's a new codec processing system that can reduce FLAC file size as much as 60%, still maintaining transparency: lossyWAV
http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Lossywav
Files play perfectly with October '08 Fuze firmware.

Use a plain-text editor like Notepad to create a flossy.txt file with
@echo off
c:\flossy\lossyWAV %1 --low --nowarnings --quiet %3 %4 %5 %6 %7 %8 %9 --stdout|c:\flossy\flac - -5 -f -b 512 -o%2
Rename flossy.txt to flossy.bat and put it in a directory/folder c:\flossy
In c:\flossy also put flac.exe and lossyWAV.exe
A special custom foobar2000 Commandline Encoder Preset must be created as follows
Encoder: C:\WINDOWS\system32\cmd.exe
Extension: lossy.flac
Parameters:
/d /c c:\flossy\lossywav - --standard --silent --stdout|c:\flossy\flac - -b 512 -5 -f -o%d
BitDepth: lossless (or hybrid)
Highest BPS mode supported: 24

Last edited by fluxam; 11-14-2008 at 04:11 PM. Reason: Added detailed lossyFLAC transcoding instructions
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  #10  
Old 11-17-2008, 09:39 AM
JK98 JK98 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sansaguy View Post
the Clip is the Fuze with no video. If you'd like video too then get the Fuze..if all your interested in is audio then snag a Clip.
Many will say that the video on the Fuze is not worthwhile. I haven't used video on the Fuze, but if you go to the Sandisk company message board, you will see many complaints about video problems on the Fuze. I have a Fuze. I don't have a Clip though. It seems like the major differences between the Clip and Fuze are that the Fuze has a card slot, longer battery battery life, a larger screen, and a navigation wheel that rotates.

I guess the choice of player boils down to how you plan to interact with the player, and what storage capacity you might want. Since the Fuze has a card slot and the Clip doesn't, that might be a factor if you have plenty of music. That is why your choice should perhaps be the Cowon D2 vs the Fuze rather than the Fuze vs the Clip, as the D2 has a card slot. FLAC files take up plenty of space, so when using FLAC having expandability of the storage is much more important than when using mp3 if you have plenty of music.

Last edited by JK98; 11-17-2008 at 09:46 AM.
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  #11  
Old 11-17-2008, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Many will say that the video on the Fuze is not worthwhile.
I will respectfully have to disagree with that statement. As a Fuze owner for almost 8 months now I have put a considerable amount of video on my player and most of it has come out surprisingly good. Yes there is stuttering that happens from time to time and it is time consuming (for me anyway) to put video on my Fuze, but for the most part I have enjoyed watching video on the player. On 3 occasions I have watched full length movies on my Fuze..the ultimate test of a player's video capability IMO.

Would I wish it were better..?. Of course. But you can buy an 8GB Fuze for $80 if you look hard enough on the net. I think the versatility of the player now with added FLAC and OGG support, to me there's nothing really out there that can touch it...in it's price range.

Sorry for getting a little off topic but if the choice were mine between the Fuze vs Clip. The Fuze EVERY time.
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Last edited by sansaguy; 11-17-2008 at 03:37 PM.
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  #12  
Old 11-17-2008, 04:16 PM
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Marvin the Martian Marvin the Martian is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sansaguy View Post
I will respectfully have to disagree with that statement. As a Fuze owner for almost 8 months now I have put a considerable amount of video on my player and most of it has come out surprisingly good.

Sorry for getting a little off topic but if the choice were mine between the Fuze vs Clip. The Fuze EVERY time.
Agreed....the video is good enough for the limited usage I give it......and as far as choosing, I bought a Fuze first, and got a Clip after.....best of both worlds in the "budget-conscious" part of the DAP arena
Right now you could get an 8GB Fuze plus 8GB micrcard for about $100.....'nuff said!
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  #13  
Old 11-19-2008, 11:22 AM
emagon4523 emagon4523 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fluxam View Post
If you really are determined to keep your collection in FLAC format, I gotta think you're a prime candidate for lossyWAV to reduce FLAC size about half. (Mind you, I think it more space-saving-conscious to transcode to Ogg Vorbis q7; I'm certain you'd hear no difference.)

In another thread, http://anythingbutipod.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35101
I wrote
there's a new codec processing system that can reduce FLAC file size as much as 60%, still maintaining transparency: lossyWAV
http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Lossywav
Files play perfectly with October '08 Fuze firmware.

Use a plain-text editor like Notepad to create a flossy.txt file with
@echo off
c:\flossy\lossyWAV %1 --low --nowarnings --quiet %3 %4 %5 %6 %7 %8 %9 --stdout|c:\flossy\flac - -5 -f -b 512 -o%2
Rename flossy.txt to flossy.bat and put it in a directory/folder c:\flossy
In c:\flossy also put flac.exe and lossyWAV.exe
A special custom foobar2000 Commandline Encoder Preset must be created as follows
Encoder: C:\WINDOWS\system32\cmd.exe
Extension: lossy.flac
Parameters:
/d /c c:\flossy\lossywav - --standard --silent --stdout|c:\flossy\flac - -b 512 -5 -f -o%d
BitDepth: lossless (or hybrid)
Highest BPS mode supported: 24
whoa

a new format to play with?
it can reduce FLAC size by 60%?

thanks for the heads up, i need to go read up.

according to that wiki it says the format is NOT LOSSLESS
so it's throwing away some data. therefore transcoding my existing FLAC files to lossy.FLAC doesn't seem like much of an advantage other than saving space.

if i'm just trying to save space converting from FLAC to VBR MP3 seems more logical.

i gota do some research!
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  #14  
Old 11-19-2008, 01:16 PM
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To approach this question from another angle: FLAC and proper MP3 encodes sound exactly the same on my Clip. In almost all cases there is no difference in sound quality if you rip and encode your MP3s properly (i.e. LAME -v2 to -v0). Most differences people believe to hear are very likely placebo.

(I'm using Ultimate Ears UE11 to listen with my Clip, btw.)
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