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Old 03-01-2009, 08:28 PM
claphands claphands is offline
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Help Does a Sansa Fuze need an amp? (64 ohms)

I've searched around and can't really figure out if anyone is using any high impedance head phones with the fuse.

I'm planning on getting new headphones and the fuse at the same time (if the player arrives first I have px 100s that will work fine) and I've basically decided on the Sennheiser HD280 pros and the 8gb Fuze (or a smaller version with the expansion) but I want to make sure this setup won't require an amp.

Question is will I need a headphone amp to drive the 64 ohm HD280s? If I decided to get a clip instead are the audio specs EXACTLY the same in tis respect?

This Thread didn't seem to have any consensus, but I figured the HD280s are popular headphones so maybe one of yall knows.

Full specs of the headphones (though I don't understand all of it):
Transducer: Dynamic
Frequency response: 8 Hz - 25 kHz
Characteristic SPL: 113 dB (at 1 kHz/1Vrms)
THD: <0.1%
Nominal impedance: 64 Ohms

Thanks for any help you can give me.

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  #2  
Old 03-01-2009, 08:44 PM
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Marvin the Martian Marvin the Martian is offline
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Originally Posted by claphands View Post
I've searched around and can't really figure out if anyone is using any high impedance head phones with the fuse.

I'm planning on getting new headphones and the fuse at the same time (if the player arrives first I have px 100s that will work fine) and I've basically decided on the Sennheiser HD280 pros and the 8gb Fuze (or a smaller version with the expansion) but I want to make sure this setup won't require an amp.

Question is will I need a headphone amp to drive the 64 ohm HD280s? If I decided to get a clip instead are the audio specs EXACTLY the same in tis respect?

This Thread didn't seem to have any consensus, but I figured the HD280s are popular headphones so maybe one of yall knows.

Full specs of the headphones (though I don't understand all of it):
Transducer: Dynamic
Frequency response: 8 Hz - 25 kHz
Characteristic SPL: 113 dB (at 1 kHz/1Vrms)
THD: <0.1%
Nominal impedance: 64 Ohms

Thanks for any help you can give me.
I think they might work for you, depending on how loud you like to listen.
Those 280's are a closed phone, so you might not have to crank them to drown out outside sounds. On the other hand, one of the small, cheap FiiO amps would eliminate any worries.
And the Clip and Fuze outputs seem identical to me....if they're not they are extremely close.
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  #3  
Old 03-01-2009, 08:57 PM
claphands claphands is offline
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Thanks for your quick response!

I'm just trying to downgrade the amount of tech I carry around. I can imagine (on a productive academic day) walking to class listening to my fuze (1) on some earbuds (2) carrying my laptop (3) to take notes on before I go to the noisy coffee shop to study listening to music on my hd280s (4). An amp would be number five! Flying cross country I could imagine similar tech clutter...

Decisions, decisions...

  #4  
Old 03-01-2009, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by claphands View Post
Thanks for your quick response!

I'm just trying to downgrade the amount of tech I carry around. I can imagine (on a productive academic day) walking to class listening to my fuze (1) on some earbuds (2) carrying my laptop (3) to take notes on before I go to the noisy coffee shop to study listening to music on my hd280s (4). An amp would be number five! Flying cross country I could imagine similar tech clutter...

Decisions, decisions...
The FiiO amps are tiny compared to the Fuze
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  #5  
Old 03-01-2009, 09:14 PM
claphands claphands is offline
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You are very persuasive! At 10 dollars shipped I don't have any excuse not to get one.

I am still curious though how well it will sound without the amp...

  #6  
Old 03-01-2009, 09:22 PM
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You are very persuasive! At 10 dollars shipped I don't have any excuse not to get one.

I am still curious though how well it will sound without the amp...

It's hard to say. To quote myself from that other thread....


Well, I'm using Koss KSC75 clip-ons:
Freq. Range: 15-25,000
Sensitivity: 101dB SPL/1mw
Impedance: 60 ohm
As long as I'm not in an area of really loud background noise, they work fine.

You have to remember that the KSC75's are open-backed and sit on the outside of the ear. The 280's you're considering cover the ear and from what I read they isolate pretty well too. Their impedance is a little higher than the Koss, but they're more sensitive too....so they might just be fine.
I figure it's worth a shot.
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  #7  
Old 03-01-2009, 09:55 PM
saratoga saratoga is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claphands View Post
Question is will I need a headphone amp to drive the 64 ohm HD280s?
No you do not. In fact its completely pointless to use one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by claphands View Post
If I decided to get a clip instead are the audio specs EXACTLY the same in tis respect?
Yes they are identical.

Quote:
Originally Posted by claphands View Post
This Thread didn't seem to have any consensus, but I figured the HD280s are popular headphones so maybe one of yall knows.
It also didn't have the same headphones.

  #8  
Old 03-01-2009, 09:57 PM
saratoga saratoga is offline
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Originally Posted by Marvin the Martian View Post
It's hard to say.
What? No its not. 64 ohms, and high sensitivity. An amp will do nothing here. Don't say "its hard to say" when you mean "I don't know enough to give a useful answer".

  #9  
Old 03-01-2009, 10:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by claphands
Question is will I need a headphone amp to drive the 64 ohm HD280s?


[quote=saratoga;333769]No you do not. In fact its completely pointless to use one.


If that is the case, then why do so many people use amps with IEM's?
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  #10  
Old 03-01-2009, 11:28 PM
Sansasensei Sansasensei is offline
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Sorry...
Thousands of portable amp users would disagree. An amp is not used to increase volume, but to widen the soundstage and improve the clarity of the sound, or sound quality. Power out is secondary, if it's even a consideration at all.
I used to think I didn't need an amp - until I got one. Now, I won't go without. I bought a PA2V2 two years ago and recently bought a Fiio E5. Love them both. I only use them with IEMs. I have $60 in the PA and $21 in the Fiio, so I'm still at the low end on amps. I'm afraid to try anything more expensive, because it might make mine sound cheap.
I suggest getting an inexpensive amp like one of the Fiio models, and try it for yourself. If you don't think it's an improvement (and I'd be very surprised), you aren't out a lot of cash.

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Old 03-01-2009, 11:59 PM
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Originally Posted by saratoga View Post
What? No its not. 64 ohms, and high sensitivity. An amp will do nothing here.
Glad for the reassurance that I won't need an amp if I'm trying to be highly portable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sansasensei View Post
I suggest getting an inexpensive amp like one of the Fiio models, and try it for yourself. If you don't think it's an improvement (and I'd be very surprised), you aren't out a lot of cash.
I'm going to get an e3 since they are cheap to at least try it out. Have to start somewhere, I guess.

  #12  
Old 03-02-2009, 12:04 AM
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Glad for the reassurance that I won't need an amp if I'm trying to be highly portable.



I'm going to get an e3 since they are cheap to at least try it out. Have to start somewhere, I guess.
I have both FiiO's, and for the price you can't go wrong. Just with the E3 remember to unplug the 'phones.....that's how you turn it off. It runs on AAA batteries and if you forget to unplug at night , the next day it will be dead.( I have rechargeables though)
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  #13  
Old 03-02-2009, 07:40 AM
saratoga saratoga is offline
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Originally Posted by Marvin the Martian View Post
If that is the case, then why do so many people use amps with IEM's?
The HD280s are gigantic studio headphones, not IEMs.

People use amps with IEMs because some of them are hard to drive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by claphands
Sorry...
Thousands of portable amp users would disagree. An amp is not used to increase volume, but to widen the soundstage and improve the clarity of the sound, or sound quality.
Yes . . . for devices that need an amp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by claphands
Power out is secondary, if it's even a consideration at all.
For IEMs sure. But not all headphones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by claphands
I used to think I didn't need an amp - until I got one. Now, I won't go without. I bought a PA2V2 two years ago and recently bought a Fiio E5. Love them both. I only use them with IEMs.
So you only use them for IEMs, but recommend people with non-IEMs use them. You are not even taking your own (lousy) advice.

  #14  
Old 03-02-2009, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by saratoga View Post
The HD280s are gigantic studio headphones, not IEMs.

People use amps with IEMs because some of them are hard to drive.
Really? Which ones?

And if you are going to quote a previous poster, it would be nice to accredit the one that actually posted what you referenced.
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  #15  
Old 03-02-2009, 09:12 AM
saratoga saratoga is offline
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Originally Posted by Marvin the Martian View Post
Really? Which ones?
In general, most IEMs with very low impedance. IEMs with very high sensitivity can also be sensitive to electrical noise, though thats less of a problem on battery powered devices then on lines powered DACs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin the Martian View Post
And if you are going to quote a previous poster, it would be nice to accredit the one that actually posted what you referenced.
I don't think this means what you intended it to.

  #16  
Old 03-02-2009, 09:18 AM
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My HD201s only have 24ohm yet my D2 outperforms my Clip with them because it has higher power output. IMO, there's a slight difference between volume and powering capabilities. The Clip just isn't capable of making my HD201 shine like the D2. An amp can only help, not hurt, 60ohm phones. Clieos benefited from a Fiio E3 on his 12ohm SoundMagics!(Source: www.inearmatters.net) Clip and Fuze just need a little more power.
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Old 03-02-2009, 10:25 AM
saratoga saratoga is offline
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Originally Posted by samueljesusfreak View Post
My HD201s only have 24ohm yet my D2 outperforms my Clip
I don't think this is true. Check these results:

http://rmaa.elektrokrishna.com/Compa...p,%20Vibez.htm

The clip seems to handle lower impedance loads much better then the D2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by samueljesusfreak View Post
with them because it has higher power output.
The clip actually has a higher power output, and unsurprisingly, it seems to do better with low impedances.

Quote:
Originally Posted by samueljesusfreak View Post
The Clip just isn't capable of making my HD201 shine like the D2.
Do you actually have anything to back this up or is it more audiophile crap? Because it sounds like you misread that the D2 had more power, and decided it must sound better . . .

Quote:
Originally Posted by samueljesusfreak View Post
An amp can only help, not hurt, 60ohm phones. Clieos benefited from a Fiio E3 on his 12ohm SoundMagics!(Source: www.inearmatters.net) Clip and Fuze just need a little more power.
See above. This is the same dumb crap I just discredited.

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Old 03-02-2009, 10:36 AM
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Ah. You're too good at this stuff. Haha.. the D2 just must allow more output because I have to crank my Clip to get any power for my HD201s. I think I can speak for myself and Marvin the Martian when I say that we're just simple music lovers who think the Clip needs some more audio output. FAR from audiophiles. Thanks for giving me a more detailed explanation though, usually most of the info I get on this site is scattered and in pieces.
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Old 03-02-2009, 10:50 AM
saratoga saratoga is offline
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Originally Posted by samueljesusfreak View Post
FAR from audiophiles.
No, the random beliefs about audio unsupported by evidence or reason is basically what makes someone an audiophile.

  #20  
Old 03-02-2009, 10:53 AM
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No, the random beliefs about audio unsupported by evidence or reason is basically what makes someone an audiophile.
After spending time looking on head-fi, I have to agree with that statement. But I'm not THAT crazy.

To the OP. Try the Clip and HD280s. If you don't like it, try an E3. I got nothing else for ya, haha.
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