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Old 05-05-2010, 11:56 PM
TickledBrain TickledBrain is offline
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Exclamation To anyone thinking of getting a Windows Mobile device, reconsider.....

I've been one of those people that stuck by Windows Mobile for a long time. People stated that it froze, had errors, etc. Nothing that I experienced, but I just felt those people never knew what the hell they were doing on their phone to begin with. Still, I went ahead and got the HTC HD2 and found some rather crippling reasons as to why buying Windows Mobile now would be bad.

Recently I've been contacting the companies that are making apps for Android, iPhone, etc. Mostly to see if they were going to port their programs onto the Windows Mobile platform. Their response was generally this type of response:

"Windows Mobile Market is not doing well. It's not selling many apps. Microsoft is giving developers a tough time when they want to sell their apps on Marketplace. Finally, Microsoft Marketplace doesn't market their stuff enough"

Some of these companies were even companies that STARTED THEIR BUSINESS with Windows Mobile!!! Now they decided that since Windows Mobile isn't doing well then they will not focus so much on it or not at all depending on how it goes.

I'd have to say that the final crippling reason will be Windows Mobile 7. They are supposedly completely redoing it and making the applications for it into a whole new format that will not be backwards compatible, BUT it will be able to support installation of PREVIOUS Windows Mobile applications. Meaning that in probably less than a year all previous Windows Mobile devices will stop getting the newer apps for it.

Now I'm not saying the device that I own isn't good. The Tmobile HD2 is GREAT. It's slick, clean, easy to use, does have a lot of apps and the hardware is outstanding (It can run FPSECE absolutely perfect even with multi touch). Still, the idea that it runs the best hardware available and Microsoft is being a bunch of pussies saying "it won't be able to run it" means Microsoft is just a complete piece of trash that doesn't stand behind it's customers. I won't tell you not to get ANY Windows Mobile device (Windows Mobile 7 could be amazing for all I know), but FOR NOW I'd recommend not getting one because it will just not receive further support very soon. I won't recommend iPhone for obvious reasons, but I do recommend the Android devices because they do have a device with the same outstanding hardware that the HD2 has. Android is getting a lot of apps behind it too so there's really nothing that you will be missing from Windows Mobile. I hope this thread helps some people reconsider buying a Windows Mobile device if they have been thinking about it. Thanks.
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Old 05-06-2010, 10:30 AM
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I have an Android phone now- an HTC Incredible. I like it a lot, but it is suffering from the same issues that Windows Mobile had in the past, a fragmenting OS. Its very frustrating to go to the Android marketplace and not know if an app works for your phone. Or even worse and in my case, I had a Motorola Droid before i got the Incredible and some of the previous apps i paid for dont work for the Incredible.

The fragmentation also shows with the roll out of updates. there are a handful of versoins of the OS out there- further causing issues with the app store. It is also extreamely frustrating to see the slow roll out of updates that are dependent on carriers (an issue WM 6.5 and below has).

In the end i do like my Incredible a lot, but there are some serious underlying OS issues im not willing to wait years to have it sorted out. I will be buying a Windows Mobile Phone 7 when they are released.
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Old 05-06-2010, 10:51 AM
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Yes, WM 6 is terrible, although I hear alot of companies still use it as their "platform" for company phones, and alot of companies are very wary of switching to new hardware especially in these economical times. Same goes with Symbian, BlackBerries (Although, they are almost nonexsistant in the EU) and so on... I've yet to meet a company employee that tells me their company has switched over to Android or iPhones, but companies are always the last to follow these trends. Ofcourse I dont travel all that much but what little I get to mingle I just havn't seen it yet.

I only got a WM phone (Samsung Omnia) because I knew it was the best 3G phone on the market at the time (Battery life-wise). I can actually get 6 hours of constant surfing with 3G on AND WiFi on, which just blows everything else out of the water, even current generation phones, and thats with the standard battery, get an extended one and you get get about 8-9 hours. I've gone through about 4 batteries now though The main reason I ever got a 3G phone, was because I wanted to use it to connect my wifi enabled devices to 3G networks.
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Old 05-06-2010, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EnzoTen View Post
I have an Android phone now- an HTC Incredible. I like it a lot, but it is suffering from the same issues that Windows Mobile had in the past, a fragmenting OS. Its very frustrating to go to the Android marketplace and not know if an app works for your phone. Or even worse and in my case, I had a Motorola Droid before i got the Incredible and some of the previous apps i paid for dont work for the Incredible.

The fragmentation also shows with the roll out of updates. there are a handful of versoins of the OS out there- further causing issues with the app store. It is also extreamely frustrating to see the slow roll out of updates that are dependent on carriers (an issue WM 6.5 and below has).

In the end i do like my Incredible a lot, but there are some serious underlying OS issues im not willing to wait years to have it sorted out. I will be buying a Windows Mobile Phone 7 when they are released.
This is still one of my main concerns over Android OS. I've decided I do not want a phone that's dependent on a piece of software (Itunes/Zune), so WP7 is likely out for me. I'm considering Android or jailbroken Iphone if my desire is for a touchscreen phone. If I decide to stick with what I've got, it will be the latest E-Series Nokia (loved the E71, so-so on the E72).
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Old 05-06-2010, 02:48 PM
TickledBrain TickledBrain is offline
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The thing about Android is that at least you can say ALL devices are getting the updated OS when it comes out (some sooner than others). At least your devices aren't going to be void of any further apps anytime soon. At least developers are more and more interested in developing for your OS than any others. True, it might have it's flaws, but nothing that no one can't fix and wont fix. I mean even Adobe is getting off their asses and developing Flash support for a device for once.
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Old 05-06-2010, 03:36 PM
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Enzo,
If your old Droid doesn't have apps compatible with the Incredible, than its the app makers fault. There is no reason the app shouldn't run on either phone. They both run the newest version of Android. I have the Nexus One, and while I dont have 1,000 installed apps, I have yet to encounter any problem with running an app on the phone. I do feel the fragmentation needs to get cleaned up, but you only really see it with the older phones running custom builds.

In the end though, you have to like the fact that Google pushes out so many updates for these phones. My brother needs to upgrade his iTouch for $30 to get the latest updates. Windows has ALWAYS been bad about updating any of their phones. Also, you always have the option of getting the Google branded phone now, which will always get the newest updates straight from the source. That should help clean up the remaining fragmentation.

But, lets hope Windows Phone 7 is all it should be
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Old 05-06-2010, 11:41 PM
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i take it that fragmenting OS means that there are too many devices with the OS and too many different things for the OS, but some are specifically for ONE device with that OS, and wont work on other devices that have the same OS?
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Old 05-07-2010, 08:19 AM
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There is a standard for what a device should have to run Android. The problem is that some manufacturers (like Archos) ignore the requirements and make a device that is limited by the hardware it lacks. Android is also not staying still, which I like. The Incredible and the upcoming EVO have 800 x 480 screens. The Evo's is 4.3" diagonally. Yet it is barely larger than an iPhone, being more screen than bezel.

I'm very curious to see if the next iPhone comes with a higher resolution screen. Apple believes in NOT fragmenting it's market, but the next OS update will not bing every feature to every device. There are already unique versions of the iPhone OS for the various generations of Touch and Phones. Looks like fragmentation to me. If the new iPhone bumps up resolution then look for three distinct app stores. Very androidesque.
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Old 05-07-2010, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kasrhp View Post
Enzo,
If your old Droid doesn't have apps compatible with the Incredible, than its the app makers fault. There is no reason the app shouldn't run on either phone. They both run the newest version of Android.
Look closer at the appstore, there are a lot of apps that say "this only works for _____ android device" There are a lot of reasons one app wont work for another similarly spec'ed device. Internal hardware can be quite different... take for example "droid light" app. The hardware controller for the LED camera light is specific on the Mot Droid and wont work on any LED on any other phone.

And is it the developers fault. I guess if you could say that- but how reasonable is it for a developer to test their program on 100+ hardware platforms?

@olly Where do you see Minimum specs for Android? AFAIK there are no minimum specs. Its kind of like saying Linux has minimum specs.
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Old 05-07-2010, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Olley View Post

I'm very curious to see if the next iPhone comes with a higher resolution screen. Apple believes in NOT fragmenting it's market, but the next OS update will not bing every feature to every device. There are already unique versions of the iPhone OS for the various generations of Touch and Phones. Looks like fragmentation to me. If the new iPhone bumps up resolution then look for three distinct app stores. Very androidesque.
What apple is doing is very different from what we've seen with Android and Windows Mobile. Android is seeing a mixture of 3:2, 16:9, and 16:10 aspect ratios. Windows Mobile had all of the above plus various versions of 4:3. Neither OS supports native scaling or letterboxing of applications, which is beyond retarded when you support so many different screen aspect ratios.

By comparison, the Iphone has always had a 480x320 (3:2) screen. Rumors point to the new version being 960x640 (3:2), meaning all of the apps will run just fine if the pixels are merely quadrupled (Apple isn't dumb enough to not support scaling). As long as the screen maintains the same aspect ratio, and a similar multiple on the bumped resolution, scaling can be done with no loss of quality.

Now, if they use a different processor and other specs, yes, it's certainly possible for there to be some app compatibility issues. There were some apps that didn't initially run on the 3GS when it was released. But, this is a far cry from what we're seeing with Android fragmentation. Whereas almost every modern Iphone and Ipod Touch is on 3.x, Android devices run the gamut from 1.5, 1.6, 2.0, 2.0.1, 2.1, and we're about to see 2.2 drop. It's not like Apple where over 90% of customers are on the latest OS. Android is heavily fragmented.

On top of the OS, you have varying CPUs (for the Iphone, right now, it's just two, and they use the same architecture!). You also have the aforementioned various aspect ratios with no innate scaling in the OS. It really is a programming nightmare, and unless Google does something drastic, we're going to see Android turn into another Windows Mobile.
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Old 05-07-2010, 06:37 PM
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The Nexus One (see ads) was supposed to be the prototypical Android phone. At least from Google's point of view. Some sort of trackball/pointer + home/back/menu/search buttons. The reason some older phones can't be upgraded to 2.1 or later is that they don't meet the hardware minimum specs.
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Old 05-08-2010, 01:00 AM
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what is fragmenting OS <_<
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Old 05-08-2010, 01:09 AM
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the whole market pisses me off. to hell with US cellphones In japan they pick up anything new and are bold in USA its all about some flashy apps that are not much different then the websites. in Japan they got phones as good as my mom's 2 year old laptop. in USA we got shit like the iphone.
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Old 05-08-2010, 02:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Olley View Post
The Nexus One (see ads) was supposed to be the prototypical Android phone. At least from Google's point of view. Some sort of trackball/pointer + home/back/menu/search buttons. The reason some older phones can't be upgraded to 2.1 or later is that they don't meet the hardware minimum specs.
There are plenty of phones that have or will get 2.1 that don't have a trackball/optical pad, or the "required" four buttons. The EVO4G has no trackball/optical pad. The Xperia X10 has only 3 buttons and no trackball/optical.

The 4 buttons are a requirement to be a "Google Experience" phone. I think the trackball/optical was as well, but it seems to have been waived, as the EVO4G will be a Google Experience phone.

Also, all existing phones are eligible for the 2.1 upgrade, it's just that some features (Live Wallpapers) won't work on the lower end phones. Google's plan is to have every Android handset this year on 2.1 or higher by year's end. 2.2 is supposed to compartmentalize (not a word, I know) the OS, so in the future Google can just roll out minor updates to parts of the OS without involving the manufacturer or carrier. Actual OS updates will be just the kernal, to make it easier for manufacturers and carriers to push updates out in a timely manner.

Quote:
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what is fragmenting OS <_<
If I want to make an app for the Iphone, I know to make it 3.x compatible. I really don't have to test it on older OSes, because less than 1% of the Iphone market has an outdated OS, while the vast majority of Ipod Touch users are running 3.X as well, despite the annual upgrade cost.

With Android, the last stats I heard were that roughly 50% were on 2.x (2.0, 2.0.1, 2.1, and soon 2.2), while the remaining 50% were split between 1.5, 1.6, and locked down versons of the OS (AT&T). So for Android, you have to ensure compatibility with various OSes.

On top of that, you then have to ensure compatbility wirth various CPU and screen resolution configurations. For the Iphone, you program for ARM, and you program using a 2:3 ratio (320x480 res).

Quote:
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the whole market pisses me off. to hell with US cellphones In japan they pick up anything new and are bold in USA its all about some flashy apps that are not much different then the websites. in Japan they got phones as good as my mom's 2 year old laptop. in USA we got shit like the iphone.
Have any examples? The main problem that I see in the US is carrier exclusivity, whereas in most of the world, most carriers use the same standard and same band, so you can take a phone and use it on multiple carriers with full effectiveness. In the US, both CDMA carriers use different bands, and both GSM/UMTS carriers use different bands, so even if you did get a phone that was GSM, it's 3G support would work on one carrier and not the other.

As far as technology goes, we have the same things they have in japan, except in feature phones. Europe and Japan have a better assortment of camera/feature phones. As far as smartphone go, we're as well off as anyone. We get the Iphone every first release (you can crap on it all you want, but it's a damn good phone), we got the N1 before anyone else, we're getting the Increedible and Evo while Europe is stuck on the Milestone and still awaiting the N1. We get Blackberry, Europe gets Symbian. Symbian used to be better, and in many ways still is, but Nokia has really let themselves go (E71 was a Bold competitor, whereas the E72 is an unstable brick).

So really, what examples do you have to support your claim that the US is far behind in cell phone technology?

Last edited by medion; 05-08-2010 at 02:32 AM.
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Old 05-08-2010, 04:31 PM
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why the apple love? isn't this ANYTHING BUT IPOD?
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Old 05-08-2010, 09:03 PM
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Well if it werent for Apple i think that other companies like Sony would still be using the old design of theirs for the Walkmans, and so on for companies like HTC.
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Old 05-08-2010, 09:15 PM
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not really we would have alot more variety and people would be more rounded in tastes like they are in Japan.
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Old 05-08-2010, 11:22 PM
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not really we would have alot more variety and people would be more rounded in tastes like they are in Japan.
Again, provide examples, or you're just spouting FUD.
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Old 05-09-2010, 12:42 AM
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There are again, too many to list. they got mp3 players with two heaphone jacks, they got players that you can wear around your wrist that look cool, they got ones that have touchscreens even though they are the size of a sansa fuze. they got ones that play streaming videos in HD while the US mobile companies would charge you thousands of dollars in data overage costs while theres are generally cheap. they got phones that could play oblivion if they have the right OS. theyb are more accepting of new technology. they are light years ahead of the us in everything. the us people just have simple minds and resist tech while japan embraces it.
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Old 05-09-2010, 01:04 AM
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I am interested, i would like some examples too instead of generalizations.
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