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Old 05-21-2010, 12:20 AM
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Strephon Alkhalikoi Strephon Alkhalikoi is offline
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Help Date Tags < 1900AD Question/Heads Up

This isn't an "I have a problem" post, but a simple heads up regarding date tags and MTP protocol.

If your date tag in your media file is dated earlier than 1900, the date will not display in the S-series media players, and likely won't display in the E-series either (similar firmware). I can only speculate, but I believe the MTP protocol freaks out a little bit when it sees a date older than 1900.

I also think the powers that be forgot that there is music older than 1900 on this planet. For most, it won't matter because they don't listen to classical music on a media player or else don't utilize the date tag. But I own quite a bit of it, and the date in the date tag of my files is the date the piece was composed. This means fully 1/4 of my music library on my hard drive has dates on it that place the music in the 17th, 18th, and 19th Centuries.

I've let you guys know, but where do I go next? Do I go to Sony because their player doesn't support pre-1900 dates? Do I go to Microsoft since Windows Media Player doesn't like pre-1900 dates either? Do I go to both, or is there someplace I should go that I haven't thought of?

P.S. Long walks off short piers are not an answer.
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Old 05-21-2010, 02:00 AM
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Seems like just using the date of the performance of the piece, instead of when the piece was composed, might be your best bet.
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Old 05-21-2010, 02:48 AM
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Strephon: See my reply to your other post from today - perhaps it might be helpful? Failing this, and if indeed <1900A.D. dates refuse to show on the Sony, then perhaps Marvin's suggestion might be your only recourse.

I will try this with a test file using my own process and report back...
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Old 05-21-2010, 03:12 AM
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Strephon:

Guess what? You owe me a beer.

I just copied over a test track to my Sony E. I used 1888 as the year. The Year field displays perfectly in both Winamp and on my E. As the E is functionally identical to the Sony S series AFAIK, since it works on my E, it should work on your S.

I will post screencaps tomorrow. I will try the same file on my Fuze just for kicks.

I really think marking my mp3 files as readonly solves a whole world of problems - I recommend everyone do the same.
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Old 05-21-2010, 03:53 AM
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OK, Strephon, prepare to be happy...

You must excuse the photo quality - it is late, I am a little drunk and I have no idea how to shoot macro photos. However, you can still see the year 1888 display correctly on my Sony E.

First, how it looks in Winamp as it monitors my music library:





Shot of Now Playing screen on Sony E with year 1888 displayed correctly:




Shot of Release Year screen on Sony E displaying 1888 correctly:





This is why I use Winamp with my Sony E...notice how it displays all my device contents perfectly, including the 1888 year in all fields - only thing missing is my embedded album art in this Winamp/Sony E view for all tracks on the E. I assume this is a limitation of Winamp but it does not bother me one bit.





And just for kicks, i tested this in MediaMonkey too...Yup, 1888 displays perfectly.



I suspect you will be delighted - happy birthday!
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Old 05-21-2010, 04:14 AM
CDMP3PlayerFan CDMP3PlayerFan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin the Martian View Post
Seems like just using the date of the performance of the piece, instead of when the piece was composed, might be your best bet.
For entire albums, I prefer to use the date the album was released. For compilations, I prefer to use the date each song was recorded. The following thread contains a post that shows how I determine the date to use:

http://www.anythingbutipod.com/forum...t=50535&page=2

One option for recording the composition date for the song is to record it in the Comments field.
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Old 05-21-2010, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CDMP3PlayerFan View Post
For entire albums, I prefer to use the date the album was released. For compilations, I prefer to use the date each song was recorded. The following thread contains a post that shows how I determine the date to use:

http://www.anythingbutipod.com/forum...t=50535&page=2

One option for recording the composition date for the song is to record it in the Comments field.
I don't have a large collection of classical music, but mine is tagged the way you describe, the year the album is released.
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Old 05-21-2010, 01:59 PM
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*Bump* so the OP sees this...

sorry
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Old 05-21-2010, 02:12 PM
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Strephon Alkhalikoi Strephon Alkhalikoi is offline
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Didn't need to bump it. I had read it from my phone, but not all the pictures displayed on my phone.

As noted in my reply to the Music Sync Software thread, the Content Transfer software was the source of my problems, because I had a Bill Cosby album from 1986 whose date tags refused to transfer over. I fixed that by editing the tag in MP3Tag and then transferring the album again. However, I had also thought that tags < 1900 not showing was the norm because Windows Media Player has the same exact behavior. So now I give WinAmp a shot since there are things about WMP 12 I don't like, such as the aforementioned Classical music date tag issue and the fact the visualizer function on WMP 12 opens up in a new window instead of replacing the library screen.
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Old 05-21-2010, 02:20 PM
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Ah..gotcha! Sorry for the bump...Good luck and let us know how you make out... :-)
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Old 05-21-2010, 05:12 PM
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Strephon Alkhalikoi Strephon Alkhalikoi is offline
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No worries. Sorry for sounding rude, as that was not my intent. :-(
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Old 05-23-2010, 01:56 PM
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I just got done with a chat session (included below) with Sony. They want me to escalate this higher, but after discussing things with them, I don't believe this to be Sony's problem.

Before I went into the chat session, I took a mp3 file that wasn't in my library and changed the data to reflect its status as a test file. Most importantly I set the date to 1701. I made sure my player was in MSC mode (as I noted in one of my posts on the other thread yesterday) and installed Content Transfer 1.3. After installing, I took my test file and transferred it to the player using Content Transfer. The result?

File transferred 100% correctly. It played with no problem and all the information was showing like it was supposed to. Searching by date showed 1701 in the list.

I don't believe the problem lies with Sony, and here's why:

1. Content Transfer does work properly on a MSC device and transfers the files unaltered. The same software with the MTP driver in Windows hides pre-1900 dates.

2. Windows Media Player also hides pre-1900 dates, which means it uses MTP.

3. Sony uses the standard MTP driver that comes with every installation of Windows.

4. Drag & Drop using that standard driver and Windows Explorer hides ALL date information in media files.

5. Winamp and MediaMonkey I believe use their own MTP-compliant driver, which is why these two pieces of software can transfer pre-1900 dates to the player without issue.

The problem lies with Microsoft. Their MTP driver is flawed. IF you want to continue to use MTP, take the advice of lestatar and CDMP3Fan and use Winamp or MediaMonkey. I personally recommend switching to MSC.

Chat transcript (right click to save)
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Old 05-23-2010, 02:53 PM
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Strephon:

This is excellent information IMO - thanks so much for the legwork. Your deduction about why MediaMonkey and Winamp seem to handle pre-1900A.D. dates properly likely due to the presence of their own MTP drivers seems totally logical.

This could explain some nagging issues I have read about here at ABi regarding some year tags getting lost for some folks during transfer operations to their Sony devices.

This also would explain my own success with transferring my music 100% intact to my Sony E [and other DAPs] via Winamp.

So folks clearly have a choice. Perhaps Content Transfer is not as bad as I think it is, especially since I never even installed it on my machines to give it a try. :-)

In any event, great effort Strephon - hopefully this information will help Sony users in the future.

cheer!
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Old 05-23-2010, 04:13 PM
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Strephon Alkhalikoi Strephon Alkhalikoi is offline
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I wonder if Dave from Microsoft is paying attention, because this would be good fodder for "The Great Debate".
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Old 05-24-2010, 10:06 AM
CDMP3PlayerFan CDMP3PlayerFan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lestatar View Post
Strephon:

This is excellent information IMO - thanks so much for the legwork. Your deduction about why MediaMonkey and Winamp seem to handle pre-1900A.D. dates properly likely due to the presence of their own MTP drivers seems totally logical.

This could explain some nagging issues I have read about here at ABi regarding some year tags getting lost for some folks during transfer operations to their Sony devices.

This also would explain my own success with transferring my music 100% intact to my Sony E [and other DAPs] via Winamp.

So folks clearly have a choice. Perhaps Content Transfer is not as bad as I think it is, especially since I never even installed it on my machines to give it a try. :-)

In any event, great effort Strephon - hopefully this information will help Sony users in the future.

cheer!
-lestatar
I agree that Content Transfer (CT) is not a bad piece of software, just very simple. In some ways, it's even easier to drag-and-drop files on your player with CT than it is with Windows Explorer since it automatically takes care of putting the files in the correct locations on your player.

I haven't encountered the issue with pre-1900 dates on my player, but that hasn't been much of an issue for me since all of my music has a post-1900 date. One of the reasons I sought out Content Transfer was so that I could drag-and-drop files on to my player and have the date appear (something that didn't happen when I drag-and-drop via Windows Explorer).
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