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  #1  
Old 07-21-2010, 05:03 AM
Zuniq Zuniq is offline
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Default I'm really tired with Zune HD software...

At the beginning it was a tolerable situation but in practice, Zune software bound is a pain in the ass...

Microsoft, make Zune software O P T I O N A L! (i go to my friends, i go to vacations and i can't connect my f#$%ng ZHD to any pc around to share music and videos). It has happened to me ridiculously often this summer. If WP7 works in the same way then forget me as a possible customer. I'll buy an android device which doesn't need a f$#$% dedicated software to put some music or videos in it...

There are so many occasions where i want to share or store music and videos in my Zune HD and i don't think that i'm the only one here...

There is another possible solution for Microsoft: Make an ultra basic plug n play client stored inside the device, that pops up automatically when we connect Zune HD to a computer which doesn't have the Zune software...it's that simple...

Last edited by Zuniq; 07-21-2010 at 05:13 AM.
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  #2  
Old 07-21-2010, 06:33 AM
Olley Olley is offline
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Uhm, the reason MS does the Zune software is so you CAN'T share your music with friends easily. It's to play nice with the music companies, and a DRM strategy.

It is the same with iPods. Seems U.S. MP3 makers feel like they must stay in "good" graces with the media providers. Limiting how far the music you buy from them can spread is part of the overall strategy.
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Old 07-21-2010, 06:35 AM
FallenArms3 FallenArms3 is offline
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Here's a guess at Microsoft's response: want to share music with friends? Tell them about the Zune pass!

Is it really that surprising that the Zune ecosystem is designed to prevent (illegal) file sharing? I mean, essentially, if you are interested in sharing music this way, just direct them to a torrent. It's just as legal and you don't need the Zune software.
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Old 07-21-2010, 07:52 AM
Xiamhighx Xiamhighx is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FallenArms3 View Post
Here's a guess at Microsoft's response: want to share music with friends? Tell them about the Zune pass!

Is it really that surprising that the Zune ecosystem is designed to prevent (illegal) file sharing? I mean, essentially, if you are interested in sharing music this way, just direct them to a torrent. It's just as legal and you don't need the Zune software.
Keep in mind, sharing files isn't the only reason that making the software optional would be a good thing. A lot of us already use another media management software that can sync to other MSC players, such as Winamp and Media Monkey. Some of us use Linux or Mac, neither of which have a Zune client. Some have older computers which are not powerful enough to run it. Some of us just straight up prefer plain ol' drag-n-drop.
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Old 07-21-2010, 08:07 AM
NSILMike NSILMike is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xiamhighx View Post
Keep in mind, sharing files isn't the only reason that making the software optional would be a good thing. A lot of us already use another media management software that can sync to other MSC players, such as Winamp and Media Monkey. Some of us use Linux or Mac, neither of which have a Zune client. Some have older computers which are not powerful enough to run it. Some of us just straight up prefer plain ol' drag-n-drop.
I don't think preventing file sharing is a big part of the reasoning...could be, but I doubt it. (There's already WMP which syncs to huge numbers of devices, and will easily play zune DRM.) My theories are:
1) protect zune pass DRM from being cracked.
2) wmp doesn't support all the advanced features present for zune (podcast subscriptions, etc.) but ships on all windows machines. imagine the confusion when only half your zune features work when you upgrade to win7, or the confusion for everyone else when wmp needs an update just for zunes...
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  #6  
Old 07-21-2010, 08:26 AM
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zune pass is a big reason I think.
MS could make a "cloud" version of this...however, for me being that I have a zune pass, it makes little difference. I can also see solutions like pandora and the zune pass getting more and more popular, negating the need to connect your device to your computer if you have a cell or wifi connection
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  #7  
Old 07-21-2010, 10:13 AM
Zuniq Zuniq is offline
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Guys i haven't even mentioned if the music i wanted to share belongs to any stupid company...well, it belongs to me...I make music (for no commercial reasons) and my friends too...and we want to share these files....so, MS can't hide behind any excuse...Android doesn't use this ridiculous system and it's my first choice for my next walkman/phone device. MIcrosoft should keep their feet on the ground because some day they will certainly have a big fall...
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Old 07-22-2010, 06:13 PM
SilvaHalo SilvaHalo is offline
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ever hear of a thumb drive?
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  #9  
Old 07-22-2010, 07:14 PM
NSILMike NSILMike is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuniq View Post
Guys i haven't even mentioned if the music i wanted to share belongs to any stupid company...well, it belongs to me...I make music (for no commercial reasons) and my friends too...and we want to share these files....so, MS can't hide behind any excuse...Android doesn't use this ridiculous system and it's my first choice for my next walkman/phone device. MIcrosoft should keep their feet on the ground because some day they will certainly have a big fall...
sure they can. until you are selling a million CDs on your new release, they will pay attention to the folks who are...and their concerns.
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  #10  
Old 07-23-2010, 07:04 AM
Zuniq Zuniq is offline
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Originally Posted by SilvaHalo View Post
ever hear of a thumb drive?
Since when a thumb drive can play music?

or

can a thumb drive be connected to my Zune? no

so, your "suggestion" is useless for someone who wants to share and play media files "on the road"...
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  #11  
Old 07-23-2010, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuniq View Post
Since when a thumb drive can play music?

or

can a thumb drive be connected to my Zune? no

so, your "suggestion" is useless for someone who wants to share and play media files "on the road"...
Viewed from a different perspective: all other MP3 players (MSC, MTP, also iPods) can generally act like a thumb drive without overly specific app needs. Only the Zune can't.
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Old 07-23-2010, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfkt View Post
Viewed from a different perspective: all other MP3 players (MSC, MTP, also iPods) can generally act like a thumb drive without overly specific app needs. Only the Zune can't.
Don't forget about the iPod.
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  #13  
Old 07-23-2010, 09:56 AM
Zuniq Zuniq is offline
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Quote:
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Don't forget about the iPod.
I thought ipods need itunes to connect to a computer...
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  #14  
Old 07-23-2010, 10:26 AM
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iPods can act as a thumb drive for data by default, which the Zune can't - but you can't have audio tracks loaded on an iPod in MSC mode and then also play them back. However, there are 3rd party applications like Sharepod or Yamipod you can put on an iPod, that make it easy to transfer audio files to and from any computer without having to have iTunes installed at all.

Of course this could/would/should be possible with a Zune as well - if some skilled hacker found it worth their time to write an equivalent to Sharepod for the Zune. Thus, effectively freeing the Zune from being handcuffed by needless, arbitrary software.
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  #15  
Old 07-23-2010, 10:45 AM
NSILMike NSILMike is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfkt View Post
iPods can act as a thumb drive for data by default, which the Zune can't - but you can't have audio tracks loaded on an iPod in MSC mode and then also play them back. However, there are 3rd party applications like Sharepod or Yamipod you can put on an iPod, that make it easy to transfer audio files to and from any computer without having to have iTunes installed at all.

Of course this could/would/should be possible with a Zune as well - if some skilled hacker found it worth their time to write an equivalent to Sharepod for the Zune. Thus, effectively freeing the Zune from being handcuffed by needless, arbitrary software.
It's only a theory, but I think this has to do with protecting the zune pass DRM. It explains why 3rd party apps are so tightly sand-boxed as well- with the forced reboot, etc.
Windows Media DRM works by encrypting the file, and supplying a decryption key (the so called 'license') for playback. I wouldn't be surprised if the version of the file that is copied to a zune has more limited protection than on the PC side.
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Old 07-23-2010, 10:53 AM
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I assume the same holds true for iPods as well - I doubt you could load DRMed tracks on them via Sharepod, only un-crippled music. But spreading one's DRMed music wouldn't be very useful anyways, no matter if iPod or Zune.

But there should be some faint theoretical possibility for a similar workaround for the Zune, with files that don't need tightly locked license key integration, such as regular MP3s (contrary to WMA-DRMed crap). Of course only if there's enough demand for something like that - but seeing the future (or lack thereof) of the whole Zune ecosystem, it seems doubtful that some hacker(s) starts working on that - it sure would be no trivial task.
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  #17  
Old 07-23-2010, 12:03 PM
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Marvin the Martian Marvin the Martian is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuniq View Post
I thought ipods need itunes to connect to a computer...
Apparently not all of them. I have a 2nd-gen Nano 4GB here right now that a friend's GF bought off somebody, and she has no computer.....so I brought it home to charge up and make sure it worked. After charging it with my USB AC charger, I plugged it into the computer, and I was able to remove and add songs to it with Mediamonkey....and iTunes has never been on this computer.
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  #18  
Old 07-23-2010, 12:56 PM
NSILMike NSILMike is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfkt View Post
I assume the same holds true for iPods as well - I doubt you could load DRMed tracks on them via Sharepod, only un-crippled music. But spreading one's DRMed music wouldn't be very useful anyways, no matter if iPod or Zune.

But there should be some faint theoretical possibility for a similar workaround for the Zune, with files that don't need tightly locked license key integration, such as regular MP3s (contrary to WMA-DRMed crap). Of course only if there's enough demand for something like that - but seeing the future (or lack thereof) of the whole Zune ecosystem, it seems doubtful that some hacker(s) starts working on that - it sure would be no trivial task.
Possibly not. iTunes is basically DRM-free (they say completely, but apparently 'complete' means upper 90's for percentage to the Apple folks...) and they have no zune pass equivalent. My theory only holds if the track on the device has no or low levels of DRM (vs. the PC.) If you cracked that, you have an endless supply of zune pass music. Now that is something I'd worry about if I were a record label getting my arm twisted to license my content to zune for the pass...
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Old 07-23-2010, 01:17 PM
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I assume we're possibly talking about different things. What I meant has nothing to do with any kind of DRM, any stuff that 'belongs' to Microsoft, which they want/need to control 100%. Your points are valid for their whole marketing/subscription scheme, where you rent stuff, but don't own it. My points however about those apps like Sharepod are for people how own their music - no matter if legal or illegal - and they want to share those files - again, no matter if legal or illegal - but without any DRM (people still use MP3s on their Zunes, not only WMA-DRM junk ). Of course, if you rent your music from Microsoft, then you would have to crack the DRM, and that would be a whole other thing than simply being able to get your music off of your Zune, the way you want it, without jumping through Microsoft's hoops. You cannot get your files off (or on) the damn thing anywhere without the Zune app. Your files, not Microsoft's files. Hope that clarifies a bit.

People who buy into the whole DRM scheme would probably have no need for a more open Zune platform, and they would have to crack the DRM on their PC anyways, as is the usual way - not on their portable player. On the other hand, people who want to use their player openly (like any other player on the market), people who perhaps didn't inform themselves beforehand how limited the Zune is when it comes to connectivity - for those people something like Sharepod will definitely be beneficial. Without prejudice whatever way they obtained their (un-DRMed) music, or any other files that are on that player, and that they want to get on or off.

In short, having the usual, average control over the data that belongs to you (not some corporation), is a very basic wish - something that is criminally neglected on the Zune platform.
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  #20  
Old 07-23-2010, 02:11 PM
NSILMike NSILMike is offline
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I assume we're possibly talking about different things. What I meant has nothing to do with any kind of DRM, any stuff that 'belongs' to Microsoft, which they want/need to control 100%. Your points are valid for their whole marketing/subscription scheme, where you rent stuff, but don't own it. My points however about those apps like Sharepod are for people how own their music - no matter if legal or illegal - and they want to share those files - again, no matter if legal or illegal - but without any DRM (people still use MP3s on their Zunes, not only WMA-DRM junk ). Of course, if you rent your music from Microsoft, then you would have to crack the DRM, and that would be a whole other thing than simply being able to get your music off of your Zune, the way you want it, without jumping through Microsoft's hoops. You cannot get your files off (or on) the damn thing anywhere without the Zune app. Your files, not Microsoft's files. Hope that clarifies a bit.

People who buy into the whole DRM scheme would probably have no need for a more open Zune platform, and they would have to crack the DRM on their PC anyways, as is the usual way - not on their portable player. On the other hand, people who want to use their player openly (like any other player on the market), people who perhaps didn't inform themselves beforehand how limited the Zune is when it comes to connectivity - for those people something like Sharepod will definitely be beneficial. Without prejudice whatever way they obtained their (un-DRMed) music, or any other files that are on that player, and that they want to get on or off.

In short, having the usual, average control over the data that belongs to you (not some corporation), is a very basic wish - something that is criminally neglected on the Zune platform.
If my theory is valid (and that is a big if...) then they have to control how the zune device sync's whether or not the content is Zune Pass. If the files are MP3 then if someone chose to violate copyright and share them, they'd just share the copy from the PC. My theory assumes that it's easier to 'crack' the zune pass track file on the device than the file on the PC. So, whether DRM'd or not, MS has to strongly protect against jail breaks of the zune device. And it would equally apply to wma protected purchased files...it's just that there are fewer and fewer of those, vs. 100% of zune pass.
(The really silly thing here is that probably all that content is already available online anyway... but that doesn't stop the content owners from worrying. If it did, DVDs wouldn't be DRM'd and we'd all be able to sync them freely to zunes and ipods without worrying about why digital copies are not zune compatible.)
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