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Old 07-30-2010, 02:43 AM
DSperber DSperber is offline
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Default Playlists on the J3: FIGURED IT OUT!! Works perfectly!

In all honesty, all credit for this HUGE BREAKTHROUGH comes from the JetAudio forum and another poster who figured out how to do this on the S9 back in February 2009. But it turns out the technique works perfectly on the J3 as well.

In other words... PLAYLISTS ON THE J3 WORK TOTALLY AS ONE WOULD HOPE, although you must use Windows Explorer on the PC (rather than the J3 itself) to make and maintain them!!!

Story and final technique below.


First, I noticed that when looking down the general list of [Albums], [Artists], [Years], etc., that there was an item for [Playlists], although when I selected it there was nothing shown. But its mere presence suggested to me that there truly was some actual built-in support for something called [Playlists] buried somewhere in the J3's interface, if only it could be uncovered. I determined to figure out what it was.

For my first experiment, I tried using Winamp on the PC, creating one of its M3U playlists from a few tracks in a single album on the PC's hard drive. I then copied that M3U playlist over to the corresponding album folder on the J3's internal storage. Actually, putting the M3U file in that folder is really not significant, and I really could have just as easily have copied that M3U file into the J3's folder called "Playlists" or anywhere I wanted. But to keep things simple at first I decided just to work within one album folder for both source tracks and M3U playlist file for a few tracks from that album.

Anyway, after copying the file I then "safely removed" the J3 and booted it. I then browsed to the [Playlists] item and astonishingly saw that M3U file I had just copied there! This was VERY VERY ENCOURAGING. The J3's browse at boot had obviously detected an M3U file as a "playlist". So far, so good.

However... (1) it displayed as the fully qualified file name, including the .M3U extension... as if I were browsing [Folders] which I was not. I really just wanted to see the playlist name, minus the M3U extension.

But (2) more importantly, when I selected that playlist item I was then shown "No Files". So none of the tracks named in the M3U playlist were found... even though the M3U file itself was recognized as a "playlist".

Now to be honest, none of these problems is really surprising. The original tracks placed into the playlist by Winamp's playlist create function are from my D:\MP3 location on PC's hard drive, not on the tracks of the internal or external storage of the J3. I really shouldn't have expected this to work.

But the fact that the J3 even discovered the M3U file and considered it a "playlist"... well, that was very encouraging.

Next, I tried to see if building the playlist file pointing to the actual files on the J3 folder would make a difference. So I did the the very same thing after reconnecting the J3 via USB (so I could see the two drives of internal and external storage), but this time pointing to the folder on the J3 itself. Again, using Winamp, I created the very same M3U playlist I had just built from the D:\MP3 hard drive location but this time trying to use the J3's drive.

Unfortunately, same results as before. The M3U file name appeared in fully qualified form (with .M3U extension) in the [Playlists] list, but selecting it revealed "No files".


Next, I decided to try using Windows Explorer to create a playlist. Now as it turns out, this kind of a playlist is produced somewhat differently than with Winamp or any other standard MP3 "organizer" utility (that might build M3U or PLS, etc.). In fact, a Windows Explorer playlist (suitable for playing with Windows Media Player) has a PLA extension. And it is created simply by left-clicking on one or more MP3 files (holding CTRL down) and then right-clicking on the selected items to produce a popup menu, and then selecting "create playlist" from the popup menu. It will create a PLA (Windows playlist) file that you can name whatever you want. If you then right-click on that PLA file, select Properties, and look at the "References" tab, you'll see the names of all of the MP3 tracks you originally selected. Although the file appears to have a 0 byte length, it's real and legitimate and usable. And you can even drop additional MP3 files onto it using Explorer, and they will be added to the existing list.

At least, that's how it SHOULD work.

Well, when I tried that approach (again, pointing to the folder on the J3's storage) the right-click popup menu didn't actually contain the "create playlist" item! It had a different set of items on the menu (including PLAY, etc.), but not the "create playlist" item I was looking for.

Ok. At this point I took another side trip to do some further research on the J3 playlist subject, which was when I discovered the magic post from February 2009 on the JetAudio forum. So once again, "L0rd Luke" in his very first #1 post on that forum gets all the credit for the magic breakthrough discovery: FIRST PLACE THE PLAYER INTO MTP MODE!!!! That's the secret to getting Windows Explorer to produce the "create playlist" item... MTP mode!!!

By default, the J3 is set in MSC mode (set via Settings -> System -> USB mode -> MSC). As such, both internal and external storage appear as separate drive letters to Windows Explorer, and you also get the "safely remove hardware" icon in the System Tray which you need to click before unplugging the USB cable from the computer.

If instead, you place the J3 into MTP mode (again, set via Settings -> System -> USB mode -> MTP), when you then plug the USB cable into the computer the J3 will now appear as a "portable device". And if you go into Windows Explorer instead of two drive letters you will see a device named "Cowon J3" with a "+" next to it. If you click on the "+" it will expand into two items, "internal storage" and "external storage" (corresponding to the previous two drive letters in MSC mode).

And now, once in MTP mode which is the big magic secret, when you again use Windows Explorer and select the one or more MP3 files you want to build your playlist from, and then right click on those items, now you will get the sought after "create playlist" item on the popup menu and you can then save the playlist under whatever name you want wherever you want.

Now, just pull the USB cable from the computer (you can do that in MTP mode, since there is no "safely remove hardware" process or icon as is required with MSC mode). Then reboot the J3, browse to [Playlists], and now sure enough just as hoped for the playlist you just saved is there... but just its name. The .PLA extension is NOT shown.

Furthermore, if you select the playlist unlike with the M3U failure you will now see the names of all the tracks you put into that playlist! And sure enough, if you select a track it will begin playing and displaying album art exactly as is the case for any other [album] or [artist], etc.


===>> You can keep the J3 in MTP mode, rather than MSC mode. Or, if you like you can revert back to MSC mode. The PLA playlist file is retained just like any other file on the J3 and will still be accessible via the [Playlists] item.

In other words, MTP vs. MSC really only affects how Windows sees the internal and external storage, and how you can access it. My experience is that non-Microsoft file managers (e.g. Free Commander) will NOT see the "internal storage" and "external storage" of the J3 at all. Only Windows Explorer can access the J3 when in MTP mode. In contrast, in MSC mode (with the two drive letters generated) all file managers will work normally, along with Windows Explorer.

So... MSC mode seems more convenient for managing file transfers between PC and J3 (since Free Commander, Beyond Compare, etc., all work perfectly), while MTP mode is required for using Windows Explorer to create the PLA playlist files on the J3. Playback of [Playlists] works equally well whether in MSC or MTP mode.


NOTES, anomalies, and other issues:

(1) For some reason, the first time I got into MTP mode I actually DID see both "internal storage" and "external storage" from Windows Explorer. This means I would have been able to develop playlists using tracks from either location.

However after fooling around extensively (e.g. to make sure what I was writing above was accurate) and repeating my steps, for some reason I was only able to see "internal storage" no matter what I did.

This is inexplicable. After posting this I will re-boot Windows (this happens to be a WinXP Pro x86 machine) to see if the anomaly disappears (and/or if it then returns). When I get back home next week I will repeat this whole sequence on my Win7 Pro x64 machine and see if it even appears at all.

Nevertheless, it is certainly true that at this moment I'm unable to see "external storage" when I enter MTP mode, and that's not a good thing. Obviously you need to be able to access tracks from both storage locations when building playlists using Windows Explorer.

(2) I had expected you to be able to "drag/drop" additional tracks onto a PLA playlist file, thus adding additional tracks to an existing playlist. There's certainly a "X" (seen on the "References" tab from Properties) to delete items from an existing playlist, as well as to move items up and down in the list. Surely you should be able to add a new item to a list.

Well, it didn't work. No matter how I tried I could not add a new track to an existing PLA playlist.

Again, perhaps this is a WinXP problem which will not appear in Win7, or maybe not. Don't know. I will see if the same thing happens when working with PLA playlist files on the PC's hard drive, rather than on the portable device's drives.

In any case at the moment I cannot add additional tracks to a PLA file on the J3. Caveat emptor.

(3) "L0rd Luke" states that MTP mode has another downside (at least on the S9), namely that there is some negative impact of MTP mode and FLAC or WMA lossless files, and playlists. Honestly I didn't understand what he was trying to get at, but I don't have any of these files to experiment with.

He suggests it might be a firmware problem with the S9 (back in February 2009), so I don't know if it has any relevance on the current J3 and its firmware.

All I know is that after creating my PLA playlist I was able to then get to it and use it, no matter whether I left my J3 in MTP mode or reverted it back to MSC mode. But then I only have MP3 files in that playlist.


So, I would call this a HUGE BREAKTHROUGH!

No longer limited to only 250 tracks in "Favorites", although now that [Playlists] functionality is understood and the "secret code to making it work cracked" it means "Favorites" can truly be reserved for just those tracks which are truly "favorite" and which need to be put here, to be accessed directly from the "Favorites" item on the title bar of the J3. For the rest of our playlist needs, we obviously can have an unlimited number of playlists, each of which contains an unlimited number of tracks (not limited to 250).

Only requirements: (a) use Windows Explorer to create playlists on the J3, and (b) be in MTP mode during that playlist creation process. Playlist playback mode is supported by both MTP or MSC mode.

Also, I will probably use the actual "Playlists" folder on the J3's primary storage to hold PLA playlists for album folders on that drive. And I will create a "Playlists" folder on secondary storage (as I will create a "Music" folder), since it makes good sense to me to organize things that way. It makes no difference to the J3, as the boot scan of both primary and secondary storage scans everything in every folder looking for whatever it's looking for. Having files directly at the root or under a primary folder is really of no consequence to the J3... although it really does help humans when browsing (at least in my opinion).

Last edited by DSperber; 07-30-2010 at 02:55 AM.
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  #2  
Old 07-30-2010, 08:01 AM
spectre spectre is offline
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thanks for the info.
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Old 07-30-2010, 08:15 AM
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Well, you have lost 97% of your audience at the MTP point of your lecture... Everybody hates MTP, but me.
MTP .pla playlists are virtual files. In MTP a playlist is more like a non hand-editable macro send to the device via this USB protocol.
If your player recognize m3u files, maybe you could find a way to make it read text playlists, hoping it can be just a matter of file path.
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Old 07-30-2010, 09:39 AM
Resiak Resiak is offline
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Excellent job there DSperber and thanks for the hard work.
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  #5  
Old 07-30-2010, 10:15 AM
Olley Olley is offline
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In Windows 7 at least, once you open (as a list) a PLA file you've created on the J3, you can then drag and drop more files into it, and also re-arrange their order or delete items from the list.

Thanks again for posting the MTP clue.
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Old 07-30-2010, 11:43 AM
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Agreed...good work DSperber...Suggestion however...

Perhaps a second post with bullet points on how to get this done? :-D

@Meetooman: I happen to like MTP as well, and use it daily with Winamp to manage my Sony E, all my Creative players and the RCA Opal piece o crap.

MTP has many merits when used properly :-D
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  #7  
Old 07-30-2010, 04:31 PM
DSperber DSperber is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Olley View Post
In Windows 7 at least, once you open (as a list) a PLA file you've created on the J3, you can then drag and drop more files into it, and also re-arrange their order or delete items from the list.
Ah... maybe that was what I was missing.

I was simply trying to drag/drop an MP3 track while in Explorer, onto the other PLA entry in the same Explorer view. That had no effect.

I didn't think to actually RMB on the PLA file -> Properties to get the dialog window, and then select the "References" tab to show the existing list contents (which also shows the additional buttons to delete items from and rearrange items in the list), and then drag/drop an MP3 onto that open dialog window.

Is that what you did? Haven't gotten to try that yet in WinXP.

Or did you simply drag/drop one item (from the Explorer list) onto the PLA item (also in the Explorer list) using Explorer... which happens to work fine in Win7 (per your report) but seemingly does not work as expected with WinXP (based on my experiments last night)? It's possible they fixed this in Win7, if that's all you did and yet had success whereas I had failure.
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Old 07-30-2010, 04:52 PM
DSperber DSperber is offline
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Originally Posted by lestatar View Post
Perhaps a second post with bullet points on how to get this done?
Good idea.

I'll get to this later tonight. Short, to the point step-by-step recipe.

Of course it's really just that you need to use Windows Explorer to "create playlist" which will result in the PLA playlist that the J3 seems to understand. Other standard MP3-related organizers and players which can produce M3U and PLS etc. playlists may be fine for PC players, but apparently those file formats are not understood by the J3. Perhaps it's just a proper file pathname issue, but whatever the explanation the key seems to just use PLA playlists (though they are not truly "editable" in a standard way), which is fine by me... as long as having my own playlists (and not being limited by 250 Favorites) is the final result.

I will experiment a bit more later, to see if using Explorer to create PLA playlists on the PC's hard drive (e.g. within my D:\MP3 album folders) can work and whether those PLA files can then be copied to the J3 and used as-is directly from there without any further consideration. That would be kind of convenient if true, since that's also where I've placed all of my COVER.JPG album art files and they get copied to the J3 as part of my process of getting music/art onto the J3 from my hard drive. It would be great if the PLA playlists (created on the hard drive) could also be copied and used as-is. But probably not.

Otherwise, it's at least a minor pain if the PLA list itself has to be built by Explorer when accessing the music files on the J3 itself... and then only after first placing the J3 into MTP mode. I wonder if those PLA files can then be copied back to the hard drive and work there too? Again, probably not.


Quote:
MTP has many merits when used properly
Well again, it seems that MTP mode is only required to develop the PLA playlists using Explorer when accessing the music files on the J3. It is that MTP mode for the "portable device" which seems to produce the "create playlist" item on the RMB popup menu, which does not appear if the device is connected in MSC mode.

You can revert the player back to MSC mode after creating the playlists (for convenience inusing Windows file manager programs to transfer files to the J3), or leave it in MTP mode. In either case it seems that the PLA playlists are still usable during playback.


Interestingly, I just tried RMB on selected files on my hard drive, and also did NOT get the "create playlist" item on the popup menu. This would be consistent (i.e. with unique drive letters shown) with how the J3 appears in MSC mode... as two unique drives, where is also is not possible to get the "create playlist" item on the popup menu.

So it would appear to be a very particular quirk (i.e. "feature") of Windows Explorer, that (a) only for a portable device connected in MTP mode which shows things like the "internal storage" and "external storage" items in Explorer (rather than true drive letters from MSC mode), that (b) selecting music files on the portable device and then RMB will have the "create playlist" item on the popup menu, allowing you to then create the PLA playlist.

Seems very much specifically tailored to ONLY developing playlists for use on portable devices. I haven't experimented using Windows Media Player and music files on the hard drive, to see if there's some other way to build these PLA playlists for music tracks on real hard drive folders, since Windows Explorer does not seem to be usable (as hard drives are apparently conceptually like MSC portable device connections).

Interesting.
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Old 07-31-2010, 12:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSperber View Post
So, I would call this a HUGE BREAKTHROUGH!

Only requirements: (a) use Windows Explorer to create playlists on the J3, and (b) be in MTP mode during that playlist creation process. Playlist playback mode is supported by both MTP or MSC mode.
DSperber, good info, but I think the bigger breakthrough would be creating usable playlists in MSC mode. Many of us are wanting and waiting to learn how to make usable playlists in MSC mode. That has been stumping many of us.
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Old 07-31-2010, 02:09 AM
DSperber DSperber is offline
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Well, maybe not such "good info" after all.

Further testing has uncovered a number of problems even with these PLA playlists... specifically caused by going from MTP back to MSC mode. While the J3 itself appears able to use the PLA playlist even in MSC mode as long as you don't connect J3 to the PC in MSC mode, unfortunately once you do connect the J3 to the PC in MSC mode you will destroy the PLA files.

In my opinion this is a Windows problem, not a J3 problem, but I can't prove that. I also don't know if it's strictly a WinXP problem that's been fixed in Win7, or whether it's a problem even in Win7.

Nevertheless, it does appear that the PLA files will remain usable even if you revert from MTP to MSC mode, as long as you don't reconnect the J3 to the PC via USB in MSC mode.

Of course you can still copy files from PC to J3 while in MTP mode, though not as conveniently perhaps as if you were in MSC mode, but otherwise if you're willing to "live in MTP mode" you will not lose your PLA files. And you'll be able to build/maintain playlists, and you'll also be able to maintain files on the J3... albeit only using Windows Explorer, rather than other file manager programs you might want to use.


We've now unfortunately got two threads going on this subject.

For more details see this post of mine in the other thread.

I'd suggest we cease using this thread going forward, and instead use only the other thread for ongoing discoveries and new information learned by anybody. It certainly does appear that playlist functionality is NOT "working perfectly" as I initially thought yesterday.

This really should be addressed by Cowon, but I'll be satisfied if I can at least figure out an acceptable workaround (to the 250 limit on Favorites) which gives me pretty much what I want with Playlists.
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Old 07-31-2010, 06:41 AM
Resiak Resiak is offline
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A correct m3U file sould look like this:

#EXTM3U
#EXTINF:200,AL STEWART - AL STEWART bedsitter images
D:\Music\AL STEWART bedsitter images.mp3
#EXTINF:279,AFTERNOONS IN STEREO - AFTERNOONS IN STEREO luna
D:\Music\AFTERNOONS IN STEREO luna.mp3
#EXTINF:182,AL GREEN - AL GREEN call me (come back home)
D:\Music\AL GREEN call me (come back home).mp3

where D: signifies the drive of the Cowon. I have done this with the S9 using winamp and it works on S9 and yet transferring the file to J3 shows "no file" when you look at it. Very very odd, because I have managed to create a playlist on the J3 twice but when I do exactly the same thing again, it doesn't work. I have done DBupdate and nothing happens. I know I am on the right track and winamp is definitely the easiest way to create playlists. I will keep trying and let you know if I find a fullproof way to do it. It is driving me mad at the moment!!!
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Old 07-31-2010, 08:43 AM
DSperber DSperber is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Resiak View Post
A correct m3U file sould look like this:

#EXTM3U
#EXTINF:200,AL STEWART - AL STEWART bedsitter images
D:\Music\AL STEWART bedsitter images.mp3
#EXTINF:279,AFTERNOONS IN STEREO - AFTERNOONS IN STEREO luna
D:\Music\AFTERNOONS IN STEREO luna.mp3
#EXTINF:182,AL GREEN - AL GREEN call me (come back home)
D:\Music\AL GREEN call me (come back home).mp3

where D: signifies the drive of the Cowon. I have done this with the S9 using winamp and it works on S9 and yet transferring the file to J3 shows "no file" when you look at it.
Unfortunately, the "D" drive letter is the MSC-related drive letter assigned by Windows when the device is plugged in. It really means nothing to the J3.

So the fully qualified path names imbedded inside the M3U playlists, while obviously relevant for Windows and its apps, is worthless to the J3.

My initial experiments with using Winamp to create an M3U playlist from folders/tracks on the J3 produced exactly the same thing as your results above. Looks perfect, though of course the drive letter is really of no value to the J3. So while the playlist file name appears in the [Playlists] list (albeit with the .M3U extension displayed as all files do in [Folders] mode), looking deeper into that playlist shows "No files"... just like you got.

I'm going to work on this more, since they must have had something in mind with their [delivered empty but present anyway] Playlists folder on internal storage. Since it works oddly with PLA playlist files (but that may be a firmware or Windows-related problem, rather than by J3 design) resulting in duplicate playlist names appearing in [Playlists] after you think you've MOVE'd that playlist file from some other folder into PLAYLISTS (and it gets re-created back in the original location at boot time), maybe it's somehow designed for use by M3U or PLS or similar form playlists.

As we all agree, coming up with MSC-compatible playlists (and not PLA which requires MTP) is really the goal... the holy grail.

Like Hypatia, I continue my search for the answer. (pop reference: go see a movie named "Agora" out now in theaters)
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Old 07-31-2010, 11:21 AM
CJ666 CJ666 is offline
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I think it is nothing that complicated, at least for me i'v always used playlist in my I9 without any problem, simply i used JetAudio for do so and i always worked flawlessly, even with AAC files from Itunes, i dont know maybe it's different with the J3.
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Old 07-31-2010, 11:52 AM
DSperber DSperber is offline
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Originally Posted by CJ666 View Post
I think it is nothing that complicated, at least for me i'v always used playlist in my I9 without any problem, simply i used JetAudio for do so and i always worked flawlessly, even with AAC files from Itunes, i dont know maybe it's different with the J3.
Would you care to share your technique with this thread? Please be more specific than "I used JetAudio and it always worked flawlessly". Exactly what is your method, from when you sit down to build a new playlist?

What do you do, step-by-step, to create and update those playlists? Exactly what program or interface do you use to create these playlists? How do you select the tracks, how do you save the playlist file?

Where are the resulting playlists kept... in a specific album or similar folder, or in the PLAYLISTS folder on internal storage?

Does the playlist collection show up in the expected [Playlists] group, and with or without any file name extension?

Don't know if the I9 (or should that have been S9) has both internal storage and external storage, but if both does your method provide playlists that support tracks on both internal and external storage?

Most importantly... is your player connected in MSC or MTP mode when creating/updating playlists? Hopefully, MSC with your player's storage showing up as individual drive letter(s).

Many thanks for these details.
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Old 07-31-2010, 02:15 PM
CJ666 CJ666 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSperber View Post
Would you care to share your technique with this thread? Please be more specific than "I used JetAudio and it always worked flawlessly". Exactly what is your method, from when you sit down to build a new playlist?

What do you do, step-by-step, to create and update those playlists? Exactly what program or interface do you use to create these playlists? How do you select the tracks, how do you save the playlist file?

Where are the resulting playlists kept... in a specific album or similar folder, or in the PLAYLISTS folder on internal storage?

Does the playlist collection show up in the expected [Playlists] group, and with or without any file name extension?

Don't know if the I9 (or should that have been S9) has both internal storage and external storage, but if both does your method provide playlists that support tracks on both internal and external storage?

Most importantly... is your player connected in MSC or MTP mode when creating/updating playlists? Hopefully, MSC with your player's storage showing up as individual drive letter(s).

Many thanks for these details.
Ok that is what i did step by step even with images,
well, Here we go:

1)Open JetAudio and then go to the playlist menu applying PLAYLIST button or keying CONTROL-T. (Picture1)

2)Now in the playlist windows press right button of Mouse so that show up the contextual menu and select NEW PLAYLIST.(Picture2)

3)Next Windows you should put the name of title the press OK.(Picture3)

4)Again in the JetAudio Playlist windows Right buttor of mouse and go to ADD FILES.

5)Thus far, we can add files from the Cowon, once done in order to save it, should press right button of mouse and choose EXPORT

6)Directing to the device Cowon, choose the type of file you wish wheter is M3U OR PLS, and give it a name which will appear in library of Cowon, i saved within the music carpet. That is it.

7)Turn on the Cowon, in Library go to [Playlist] and you'll find it.

As to msc or mtp? i left it as msc.

Please let me know if it worked for you on the Cowon J3
Attached Images
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File Type: jpg Step2.jpg (44.6 KB, 33 views)
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File Type: jpg Step5.jpg (37.5 KB, 25 views)
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  #16  
Old 07-31-2010, 08:33 PM
ibrahimovic ibrahimovic is offline
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edited I post it in:-

http://www.anythingbutipod.com/forum...546#post487546

Last edited by ibrahimovic; 07-31-2010 at 08:43 PM.
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Old 07-31-2010, 11:35 PM
DSperber DSperber is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ666 View Post
Please let me know if it worked for you on the Cowon J3
Unfortunately, it did NOT work.

I didn't realize that "JetAudio" in your reference was the player/organizer program offered by Cowon. I thought you were referring to a company name.

Anyway, I downloaded the free version and installed it, and then launched it. I had to change the default view option from "media center + toolbar" to the "media center + main window" in order to get that player window that includes the "Playlist" button. But in fact, you can also just check the "show playlist window" item on that first startup and the playlist window itself will automatically be launched as well.

I then went through everything you described (which of course was all possible since the J3 was in MSC mode), and eventually saved the same sample playlist I'd created yesterday during my MTP research, but this time I left the default PLS type specified and saved it directly into the PLAYLISTS folder on the J3's internal storage.

Then I booted the J3, selected [Playlists], and did NOT see my playlist. It definitely was there (with .PLS extension) but did NOT show up.

I then recreated it, but this time saved it as an M3U playlist... again saving it into the PLAYLISTS folder.

Again booted the J3, and this time it DID appear in the [Playlists] group, but just as yesterday's experience using Winamp to do exactly the same thing... it showed up in [Playlists] with the fully qualified file name, including the .M3U extension.

And, just as with my experience with the Winamp-produced M3U playlist, when I selected the playlist it then showed "No file".

In other words, it appears that Cowon's JetAudio media manager/player program is just one more Windows utility that builds PLS/M3U playlist files exactly as every other utility does... with the fully qualified file name location imbedded in the playlist. Unfortunately, that fully qualified file name contains a Windows-known drive letter (based on the MSC connection) which is completely meaningless and worthless to the J3 when trying to interpret the contents of the playlist.

So while the PLS file appears to be a non-supported playlist format for the J3, at least the M3U format is supported and identified at boot time. And it does appear under the [Playlists] group, although it does appear with its .M3U extension.

However the M3U playlist is unusable, as it shows "No file" when selecting it. And this is most assuredly because the fully qualified path name for each track in the playlist includes a drive letter that is incomprehensible to the J3. It is only meaningful to Windows.


I don't know how any such M3U playlist can be stored on any player and be usable on that player, if the drive letter implicit in that playlist's tracks cannot be interpreted correctly by the player.

How would "internal storage" drive letter be expressed, vs. "external storage" drive letter? Some special token or syntax? Certainly wouldn't then be a standard M3U playlist, and certainly isn't the standard M3U playlist file produced by JetAudio (or Winamp, or any of the myriad other Windows programs that do exactly the same thing).


Sorry... complete failure.

Sure, the playlist can be used by Windows programs (e.g. JetAudio, Winamp, etc.) and can actually play those tracks directly from the internal or external storage of the J3... but only when the device is connected to the PC via USB in MSC mode, using Windows programs. But the M3U playlist produced by JetAudio (or any other similar Windows program) is 100% NOT usable directly by the J3, for all the reasons given above.

If the J3 provided some kind of magic translation from the drive letters stored in the M3U file to either "internal storage" or "external storage", then the M3U file would be usable. But failing that, I'm afraid these M3U playlists are simply worthless to the J3 player mechanism.


So it still looks like that for the moment, in light of current findings and with the current J3 support in firmware, we're stuck with using MTP and its seemingly almost perfect support for and Windows compatiblity with PLA playlist files as the only apparently fully functional playlist capability.

And as long as you stay in MTP mode and do not connect the J3 to the PC in MSC mode (which will cause the loss of those PLA playlist files), you're home free. Your only real loss is the ability to use ordinary Windows file managers and "sync" programs for file maintenance on the J3, as they depend on drive letters which are not assigned to the J3 in MTP mode. You're forced to depend on Windows Explorer for file maintenance on the J3.

I'm still hoping that my inability to see "external storage" on the J3 is some oddity in my particular WinXP environment, and that both "internal storage" and "external storage" should really be visible in MTP mode (say on Win7 machines).
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  #18  
Old 08-01-2010, 10:06 AM
CJ666 CJ666 is offline
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Sorry man bad luck, i guess it doesn't work on j3, but are you shure that your adding files from the device when creating the playlist with JetAudio because it used to happen to me when i added files from the hard disk then no file appeared on my device. otherwise it works fine into my cowon i9, i alway save it as M3U into music folder. well anyway i'd like to hear anybody else who has tried this on either j3 or s9.
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  #19  
Old 08-08-2010, 10:22 PM
00formulahawk 00formulahawk is offline
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ok.. so I've been playing around on the J3 all day and reading up on the posts both here and various other forums and think I found something that works.. I still can't access the microSD (either saving the playlist to it or accessing it from a playlist that's on the main drive), but I CAN create reliable, working m3u playlists from the primary J3 drive.. start off by doing what CJ666 described:

Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ666 View Post
Ok that is what i did step by step even with images,
well, Here we go:

1)Open JetAudio and then go to the playlist menu applying PLAYLIST button or keying CONTROL-T. (Picture1)

2)Now in the playlist windows press right button of Mouse so that show up the contextual menu and select NEW PLAYLIST.(Picture2)

3)Next Windows you should put the name of title the press OK.(Picture3)

4)Again in the JetAudio Playlist windows Right buttor of mouse and go to ADD FILES.

5)Thus far, we can add files from the Cowon, once done in order to save it, should press right button of mouse and choose EXPORT

6)Directing to the device Cowon, choose the type of file you wish wheter is M3U OR PLS, and give it a name which will appear in library of Cowon, i saved within the music carpet. That is it.

7)Turn on the Cowon, in Library go to [Playlist] and you'll find it.

As to msc or mtp? i left it as msc.

Please let me know if it worked for you on the Cowon J3
when you save the playlist, save it as an m3u and save it in a common parent directory of the songs you added.. for example, I add the following 2 songs to the playlist where H is the drive letter of the J3 as seen from windows:

H:\Music\Staind\14 Shades of Grey\06 Zoe Jane.mp3
H:\Music\Rise Against\Revolutions Per Minute\Rise Against-Revolutions Per Minute-01-Black Masks & Gasoline.mp3

I could save it in either the root directory (H:\) or the Music directory

next, open the m3u file with a text editor (I used EditPad Lite, but notepad should work just fine..) you should see something like this:

#EXTM3U
#EXTINF:277,Staind - Zoe Jane
H:\Music\Staind\14 Shades of Grey\06 Zoe Jane.mp3
#EXTINF:181,Rise Against - Black Masks & Gasoline
H:\Music\Rise Against\Revolutions Per Minute\Rise Against-Revolutions Per Minute-01-Black Masks & Gasoline.mp3

for each song, delete the directory the playlist is in, and everything before it on the same line.. so if I put the playlist in the Music Folder, it would look like:

#EXTINF:277,Staind - Zoe Jane
Staind\14 Shades of Grey\06 Zoe Jane.mp3
#EXTINF:181,Rise Against - Black Masks & Gasoline
Rise Against\Revolutions Per Minute\Rise Against-Revolutions Per Minute-01-Black Masks & Gasoline.mp3

or if I put it in the root directory, it would be:

#EXTINF:277,Staind - Zoe Jane
Music\Staind\14 Shades of Grey\06 Zoe Jane.mp3
#EXTINF:181,Rise Against - Black Masks & Gasoline
Music\Rise Against\Revolutions Per Minute\Rise Against-Revolutions Per Minute-01-Black Masks & Gasoline.mp3

(note, if the playlist is in the same directory as the song, you can simply list filename..)

next, make sure there is a SINGLE blank line below the last song, and then save the file

safely remove hardware, then disconnect the J3 and boot it up.. open the file browser, go to playlists and you should see your playlist listed as whatever you named it WITHOUT the .m3u extension (if you see the .m3u extension it will probably still show "No File" when you open it..)

when editing an existing playlist, the J3 firmware is a little buggy.. when the J3 boots up, it MUST see a NEW, UNIQUE name for a playlist that has changed since the last time it was run.. if you simply modify a playlist and save it, when you boot the J3 and try to access it, it will not only show "No File" but it will erase the contents of the playlist.. to get around this, you have 2 choices:

a) edit the playlist and save it to a different name (one that was NOT in use the last time the player was turned on)
b) save the new playlist to the computer, delete the old playlist from the J3, safely remove hardware, unplug the J3, boot it up, shut it down, connect it to the computer, and copy the playlist back to the J3

for those that are interested in saving their playlists to a common directory without cluttering up their root directory or other file system (or those that are interested in trying to access the microSD..) there's another way to navigate the file system from the m3u file.. you can use "..\" in part of a directory name to move up to the parent directory of the playlist.. take the original example:

H:\Music\Staind\14 Shades of Grey\06 Zoe Jane.mp3
H:\Music\Rise Against\Revolutions Per Minute\Rise Against-Revolutions Per Minute-01-Black Masks & Gasoline.mp3

and say I wanted to put my m3u files in the following directory (I tried not to create a "Playlists" directory since the file browser already has a "Playlists" entry and I was trying not to confuse it..)

H:\My Playlists\

create the file like you originally did, and open it in a text editor.. you should see something like this:

#EXTINF:277,Staind - Zoe Jane
H:\Music\Staind\14 Shades of Grey\06 Zoe Jane.mp3
#EXTINF:181,Rise Against - Black Masks & Gasoline
H:\Music\Rise Against\Revolutions Per Minute\Rise Against-Revolutions Per Minute-01-Black Masks & Gasoline.mp3

first, delete the root directory from the beginning of each file location, you should end up with something like this:

#EXTINF:277,Staind - Zoe Jane
Music\Staind\14 Shades of Grey\06 Zoe Jane.mp3
#EXTINF:181,Rise Against - Black Masks & Gasoline
Music\Rise Against\Revolutions Per Minute\Rise Against-Revolutions Per Minute-01-Black Masks & Gasoline.mp3

next, you want to use "..\" to navigate back to the common directory (in this example root, or "H:\") so it becomes:

#EXTINF:277,Staind - Zoe Jane
..\Music\Staind\14 Shades of Grey\06 Zoe Jane.mp3
#EXTINF:181,Rise Against - Black Masks & Gasoline
..\Music\Rise Against\Revolutions Per Minute\Rise Against-Revolutions Per Minute-01-Black Masks & Gasoline.mp3

if i had saved the playlist to "H:\My Playlists\Stuff I like\" instead, I could use 2x "..\" to move up 2 directories:

#EXTINF:277,Staind - Zoe Jane
..\..\Music\Staind\14 Shades of Grey\06 Zoe Jane.mp3
#EXTINF:181,Rise Against - Black Masks & Gasoline
..\..\Music\Rise Against\Revolutions Per Minute\Rise Against-Revolutions Per Minute-01-Black Masks & Gasoline.mp3

again, make sure there is a blank line below the last song, and save, safely remove hardware, unplug the J3 and boot it up..

I've tried using the same concept to navigate to the microSD, or navigate above the root and back into the root, but neither works.. in the browser if you look at the folders, you first have to choose "J3" or "J3 EXT" so I was hoping that placing a playlist in root and using either "..\J3\" or "..\J3 EXT\" would let me access files, it simply says "No File" and empties the playlist.. not sure if it simply tries to access something that doesn't exist or if it's navigating above root and I'm just not using the right name to get back..

let me know if this works for anyone else, and who knows, maybe with enough people experimenting and sharing info we'll eventually find a way into the microSD..
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  #20  
Old 08-09-2010, 01:23 AM
DSperber DSperber is offline
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Sorry... still doesn't work for me, even after doing everything you say to do. --> "No file".

And of course the M3U playlist appears with the .M3U extension when looking in [Playlists], the dead giveaway that it's still not working and that "No file" is what you're going to get.

I don't know what "be sure a blank line is at the end" really means. Is that simply a CRLF after the final data line in the playlist? Is it CRLF and then at least one blank and then another CRLF? Or just a CR? Does it matter how many blanks are on that last line?


All this fooling around to try and get it to work is all completely a kluge, and clearly is NOT the way any of this should work. It should just work.

An M3U playlist created by a player/utility running under Windows should be usable by Windows players, no matter whether the named music files are on local hard drive or on either drive of the J3. As long as the playlist is created correctly (and certainly shouldn't require any post-editing to become "usable") it should work immediately from any player program that supports playlists.

These playlists create track file references either as "relative" (with no Windows drive letter at the front) or "absolute" (with a Windows drive letter at the front). If the J3 is supposed to be able to support playlists, then it needs to be able to support both "relative" and "absolute" track file references... exactly the way Windows players (e.g. Winamp) can support either format. This means any Windows-meaningful drive letters which may be present need to be ignored by the J3... not manually edited out by the user.


I'm going to wait for Cowon to fix this. If a playlist (however it got built) works perfectly on the S9, and then if you copy it (and all music files) to the J3 and it now doesn't work... what does that tell you???
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