Previous Zune HD Owner and WP7

[Pandemic]

I bought a Zune HD the day it came out under the impression Microsoft was actually going to be supporting the device with games (tegra?), apps, software updates, etc. As most Zune HD owners, I was disappointed with the way Microsoft has handled the Zune HD. Last Thursday it was time for me to upgrade and it came down to the Samsung Focus or the iPhone. I was quite impressed with the WP7 interface and smoothness so I went with the Samsung Focus, and now for my opinion.

I feel as if WP7 is going down the same path as the Zune HD. WP7 devices came out in November last year and have yet to see a SINGLE bug fix release. The Marketplace absolutely crawls on my focus. Switching categories, going back and forth from the app your looking at, and just general use of the Marketplace app is horrible. I've had it crash on me and not allow me to open it up again until I restarted the phone. How is this something you wouldn't want to fix immediately?! Your telling me you want to be a major competitor in the app world, but you won't release a fix for your Marketplace? On top of this the camera settings are reset every-time you close the camera. I thought you were touting the use of the quick camera button, but if I have to set my video recording to 720p every-time I open the camera, or change it to WDR each and every-time I open it, I've already missed the opportunity to do what I was wanting to do. Bug fixes like these should have been addressed immediately (especially the Marketplace one). I believe some of these issues to be addressed in the all so elusive Q1 update, but it has been to long for this update. Copy and Paste is being implemented (without the option of select all), but it has been reported through the emulator that the camera settings may still be reseting when closed. Minor bug fixes can be addressed later, but major bugs like the Marketplace and Camera should be addressed ASAP.

I like WP7 a lot, but if Microsoft keeps along this path it will fail. They have failed to allow for socket support as well as many other important API's (video, compass, etc) so developers aren't making their apps for the device because they CAN'T (Skype for example). This is not the way to make an introduction to the app scene Microsoft (you've had plenty of time to watch iOS and Android and see how to counter them).

Fun Fact: Theres a "Reset to default" option at the bottom of the settings tab/page/menu thing in the camera app.

[Briankealing]

WP7 will definitely be updated. I don't know when, or what will be updated soon, but I can assure you that MS has big things planned (like Mango Update).

[Pandemic]

Originally Posted by Briankealing

WP7 will definitely be updated. I don't know when, or what will be updated soon, but I can assure you that MS has big things planned (like Mango Update).

And I don't doubt that, but what I'm arguing is that there holding off from fixing all these bugs until they release one big firmware update. They should address the major bugs (ESPECIALLY AT LAUNCH) and release and update to fix them, not leave them alone until some big firmware update.

[Strider_Aus]

Agree with your 2 major gripes on the focus (WP7) there....being the marketplace performance (supposed to be fixed with <Feb> update) and the won't remember the camera/video options you choose.

Unfortunately - I think with OS updates being sent to carriers before release, MS have locked themselves into a fewer and larger update release program than a more regular and smaller path.

As long as they listen and do it, I guess I am happy.

[Pandemic]

Originally Posted by Strider_Aus

Agree with your 2 major gripes on the focus (WP7) there....being the marketplace performance (supposed to be fixed with <Feb> update) and the won't remember the camera/video options you choose.

Unfortunately - I think with OS updates being sent to carriers before release, MS have locked themselves into a fewer and larger update release program than a more regular and smaller path.

As long as they listen and do it, I guess I am happy.

See now I was thinking the same thing, but then I realized the reason (most likely reason) that they send the update to the carriers for testing. They do so because it changes a lot of stuff and could change certain things (mainly for carriers to test their apps), but bug fixes/a single bug fix shouldn't be enough of a change to require carrier testing. Should it?

[medion]

It's too soon to judge MS on how they will handle WP7. And, to be fair, they gave a Zune HD a LOT of support for awhile there. We know that MS will be more controlling of updates than Google, but less so than Apple. What we don't know yet is how MS will handle fragmentation. Eventually, they will be releasing higher end handsets.

In this regard, we already know they won't be like Google, who only releases to OEMs and lets them decide if they want the update. But, how closely will they follow Apple? Apple does the updates for the current generation and the last two. Will MS abandon Chassis One when Two comes out? Will they support both chassis? That's going to go a long way in determining how people view them. Gaining market share in the mobile OS world isn't something that happens over night. Their real test is how they do in their second holiday season. Remember, Android came out in mid-2008, but didn't break past 2% market share until the release of the Droid 1 in late 2009. If was after that where we started to see spikes in sales with the Nexus One, Incredible, Evo 4G, etc.

[kasrhp]

As far as the OP is concerned, it is still early. WP7 has only been out for a couple of months. Apple didnt release any real updates until the 4th month when the first iPhone was released. Before that, there was a security patch for the browser that was urgent, and another update for a couple bug fixes that did not affect the customer. So, the first update that mattered to the customer was the 3rd, which was in the 4th month. It is too early to get flustered with MS.

Also, Msoft has invested a ton of money into the new OS. They will give it everything they got. 3 months is a short timeframe. Just think of how much the iPhone lacked in the first 3 phones. 4 was a huge improvement.

I think the update path could make or break the WP7 OS. They MUST update their phones for years to come. Google has broken Android due to their update process. MS must more closely follow Apple. It's a shame though that they are running through the carriers. Is this a definite? I guess as long as they can push the carriers to update quickly, and its an OTA, its not a bad thing. I prefer to have the option to direct download, or plug in through Zune also (iTunes updates iphone). The more MS can pull from iOS and Android, the better. What better way then to do the same with the software updates?

[medion]

Google has broken Android due to their update process. MS must more closely follow Apple.

I don't think it breaks Android, but it is a definite concern. I think you have to question the purpose of a software update. For instance, when iOS 4 was shipped, the primary purpose was to offer support for the hardware features found in the iPhone 4. The secondary purpose was to back-port software features to the older hardware, if the hardware could support those features. Sometimes a new update would unlock hardware already there (FM radio, wireless-N, etc.). For the most part, Android supports all of the features already on a phone. New versions of Android tend to correspond with new hardware released;IE, the NFC and FFC support built into Android 2.3 does nothing for existing hardware. The UI enhancements I've played with are nice, but this merely helps vanilla Android somewhat catch up to existing overlays such as Sense.

Android 2.3 in its vanilla form does nothing well enough over Sense to warrant the upgrade from 2.2 + Sense. In fact, even though I'm doing a lot of ROM switching, I have to use various paid apps to help partially replicate the lost functionality of Sense.

Updates need to be released that make sense. Now, there are some cases where a lack of an update made no sense. HTC absolutely should have updated the Hero line (to include the Eris) to 2.2. They run 2.1, but its laggy. A 2.2 update would fix this. SE has no excuse other than laziness for not updating the Xperia line to 2.2. But 2.3 only makes sense on stock handsets (Droid, N1, Nexus S)...so long as they have hardware NFC and FFC support (Nexus S). Since 2.4 is looking to be nothing more than 2.3 with Honeycomb app support and limited bug fixes, it makes more sense for OEMs to go straight from 2.2 to 2.4.

So to wrap this up, there has to be a purpose to the software update. The 2.2 update was primarily a software update, whereas 2.3 is primarily a hardware-supported update. So, 2.3 makes limited sense on devices without the specific hardware to make use of it.

MS must more closely follow Apple. It's a shame though that they are running through the carriers. Is this a definite?

It's definite. The carriers have to "make sure the update is bug free." What this translate to is to make sure that the update includes the carrier-specific bloat that they want installed as well (such as VZ Navigator). MS doesn't have the clout of Apple, so they lost this fight. So, in Europe where you can get an unlocked handset, you'll get the update when it's released. For carriers, especially within the US, you'll get the update 1-2 months later.

[Pandemic]

I'm not asking for major updates immediately though. I realize major changes such as those take time, but what I am asking for is critical bug fixes. I think YOUR MARKETPLACE not working is a major bug and should be fixed. Kasrhp you even mentioned how Apple released updates for bug fixes that didn't even affect the consumer, but the bugs I'm talking about DO affect the consumer so shouldn't they be fixed?

[kasrhp]

Originally Posted by Pandemic

I'm not asking for major updates though. I realize major changes such as those take time, but what I am asking for is critical bug fixes. I think YOUR MARKETPLACE not working is a major bug and should be fixed. Kasrhp you even mentioned how Apple released updates for bug fixes that didn't even affect the consumer, but the bugs I'm talking about DO affect the consumer so shouldn't they be fixed?

What I was trying to say is that Apple had to wait 4 months to get a real update out. The minor bug stuff here and there and security patches were necessary. Those might be an easier fix as well. We obviously dont know the exact developer troubles with the marketplace, etc, but we need to give MS time.

Apple had plenty of issues with original iPhone. It took plenty of time for these to get fixed. The marketplace is a buggy issue. It has mainly worked as advertised for me. I have seen a couple bugs, but I can still search, browse and download what I want. The tweeks they need to make might be a little more in depth than a security patch. Lets wait to see how much the new update will help with these things before jumping ship.

[kasrhp]

Breaks was a little too strong, but you get the idea. This is not good for Android.

A majority of my comments were directed at the Nexus One. I agree with you from the OEM standpoint and Sense overlays, etc. But, N1 is a developer phone. They were working on Gingerbread with those and the NS phones. The N1 is supposed to have all of these updates, and get them fast. You cannot promise all of these immediate updates for the life of the phone, and then skip the second available update for it. And 2.3 brings some enhancements to the experience. Sense UI aside, the vanilla Android phones (especially N1) should be getting all of the updates. I am seeing a bigger problem with Android not being able to be ported easily from phone to phone. You have said this before, and I am feeling stronger about it every day.

Strider just posted about WP7 getting update through Zune software. Apparently MS made an announcement for it, and is releasing a new Zune update for this process. I guess nothing is set in stone, but that would be great!

[medion]

I don't want to devolve this into an Android thread, so I'll just say that I mostly agree with you on the Nexus One issue. There's more to it, but that's what the Android subforum is for.

[Strider_Aus]

I'd agree with Medion and say that it would be a de-volution (retrograde) step for this sub-forum to spend more time discussing android