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Old 02-17-2011, 07:48 PM
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Default Problems With Refurbed Fuze - Resolved / Thanks

OooooooooooK! After waiting all day for this to be delivered to my office, I decided to check my dept.'s mail room before leaving work, and there it was! Now, first impressions - I love it. I love the size, the weight, the scroll wheel, both the front and back textures -- was excited to get it home and get music on it. This is where the disappointment set in.

This simply does not sound like my Clip +. The highs sound over emphasized, even hollow -comparatively speaking. I thought it was the files- I tried mp3, flac, wma, and vorbis. I even used two pairs of headphones. I just did not get the same full sound that I get with my Clip +. I then decided to just play the exact same files on both players to make sure that I was hearing what I thought I was hearing. and yip... They just are not the same.

I bought it refurbished. Now, my second reason for disappointment, I did notice that on the right side of the player, the covers are not sealed tightly. As I was examining the player, I could see light seeping through the two pieces. I pressed them together as tightly as I could, but that did not help. I was going to get everyone's opinion about returning it, but then the sound is annoying the hell out of me. Based on the Clip + and believing these two players have the exact sound, I thought I had found the perfect player for me.

Now, recently, I read somewhere that one of the things that makes the Clip sound so good is how the player is sealed... who knows if this is true or not. In any case, I was wondering if the poor seal on mine could be contributing to the less than stellar SQ. Or is it the case that the Fuze V2 simply does not have the same sound as Clip + V1 (I do not know if there is a V2 or not)?

I guess I should send it back because of the sealing problem alone, but the question's whether or not I bother ordering another one. I would like to hope that I just got a bad one.

Last edited by Keeper; 02-22-2011 at 03:34 PM.
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  #2  
Old 02-17-2011, 08:38 PM
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McDougal McDougal is offline
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that's weird....while I've never owned a Clip+, I've heard many times that they have equally as good sound as the Fuze. have you tried putting rockbox on it and playing with that EQ? i personally can't help you about the refurbish condition.....it may or may not have an effect. i find for most players sound pretty much the same on flat, maybe a slight diff, but not that much, so its very possible that it could be the refurbished condition, but that's just my guess. as far as i know there is no sound difference between the fuze v1 and v2.

If you're not satisfied with your Fuze, then another good option may be a Sony Walkman E Series
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  #3  
Old 02-17-2011, 08:56 PM
skip252 skip252 is online now
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Volume matched, with my best headphones on I can't hear any difference between a Clip+ and a V2 Fuze. The V1 Fuze, V2 Clip and V1 Clip also all sound the same to me. Unsurprising as they share the same sound processing hardware.
Quote:
Originally Posted by saratoga View Post
Yes they're the same. The Clipv1 and Fuzev1 have identical internals, as do the Clipv2, Clip+ and Fuzev2. The Fuze+ is completely different then all the others.
Have you volume matched your players when you listened? It only takes a small difference in volume for your ears to tell you one is very different from the other.

If you're not set up to do it according to saratoga's directions you can try to do it by ear. I used to set one to a comfortable listening level and then try to bring the other to that level by moving the headphone plug from one to the other quickly as I adjusted the volume in small increments. When I tested that method against using the Replaygain values I found I could get within a half dB with some careful listening.

The separation in the case shouldn't affect the sound quality but it would concern me. My oldest Fuze has lasted just under 2 years. If yours lasts that long that's a lot of opportunities for some foreign object to get in there and do some damage.

I've bought a number of refurbished DAPs from Buy.com. I never had to return any but I believe they have a fairly liberal return policy. I'd get in touch with them a see about an RMA. I wouldn't want to be nursing along a "pre-broken" player for the next couple of years.
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Old 02-17-2011, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skip252 View Post
Volume matched, with my best headphones on I can't hear any difference between a Clip+ and a V2 Fuze. The V1 Fuze, V2 Clip and V1 Clip also all sound the same to me. Unsurprising as they share the same sound processing hardware.Have you volume matched your players when you listened? It only takes a small difference in volume for your ears to tell you one is very different from the other.

If you're not set up to do it according to saratoga's directions you can try to do it by ear. I used to set one to a comfortable listening level and then try to bring the other to that level by moving the headphone plug from one to the other quickly as I adjusted the volume in small increments. When I tested that method against using the Replaygain values I found I could get within a half dB with some careful listening.

The separation in the case shouldn't affect the sound quality but it would concern me. My oldest Fuze has lasted just under 2 years. If yours lasts that long that's a lot of opportunities for some foreign object to get in there and do some damage.

I've bought a number of refurbished DAPs from Buy.com. I never had to return any but I believe they have a fairly liberal return policy. I'd get in touch with them a see about an RMA. I wouldn't want to be nursing along a "pre-broken" player for the next couple of years.
Thanks,

My initial thought about returning it was a matter of concern about debris getting into the player. I guess I will return it just for that reason. As for volume testing, I did try to play it by ear.. had it down to what is comfortable for me. I will read Saratoga's direction and see what else I can do. I will double check that all things are even, including replay gain and give it a test again.

I really want to have one of these players. I absolutely love the sound of the Clip + and the size and design of the Fuze. I will work on it a bit more tonight before I call it quits.

Last edited by Keeper; 02-17-2011 at 10:21 PM.
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  #5  
Old 02-17-2011, 10:09 PM
psgarcha92 psgarcha92 is offline
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@keeper, because its a refurb, and u complain of not-so-good-SQ, i'd say rather return the unit and get a new one...if that doesnt work for you, then call it quits. Though personally i dont have a Clip+ but i have read on countless places that they sound the same. also, r u sure that all the time you listened to your clip, you didnt have any EQ settings? i mean like listening to Rock on Clip+ and Flat on Fuze V2 (check that once, and play a little bit with the Fuze EQ, coz the first time i heard my Fuze, i very much fell in love with the sound).

@skip252, do you think that hardware might be a problem in his case? i mean, its a Refurb, then its like poorly maintained (i can see that my Fuze's body is quite fit and no light seeps out at least)...i once had an ipod that was a refurb but had damaged hardware (Blown up power supply)

hey keeper, get a new one for yourself....if you still dont like it, then do what you feel like....i just know that RockBox gives this player countless possibilities. And i dont know how, but installing RB mite Void your warranty, so get a new one (strongly recommended) and then RB it. Also, get a case for it...would be nice....All the best for this time...!
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Old 02-17-2011, 11:02 PM
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fuze.jpg
@ McDougal, yes after making some adjustments there is no longer much difference in the SQ between the Fuze and the Clip +.

@ Skip252, thanks for the suggestions.

This is a pic of the side of my Fuze where you can see the light seeping through the seams of the player. For this reason alone, I need to send it back. Also, the replay gain on the Fuze out of the box was set differently from the Clip's. I do not know if that made a difference or not.

@Psgarcha92 - you were right on the nose re: the EQ settings on the Clip. The low frequencies had been adjusted slightly. I have not Rockboxed either player. I really want to give the Fuze another try. This is the first time I have had any build problems with a refurbished player, and I have four others that are refurbished.

On another SQ note - while slight use of EQ on the Clip + really did enhance the SQ, when I made the same tweaks of the EQ (low frequencies) on the Fuze, the overall volume seemed to reduce and the sound became terribly muddied! No worries, I do not usually use EQ at all. I think I was just testing it out on the Clip a couple of weeks ago and forgot that I made the changes. All other problems with the SQ was a matter of my not realizing the settings on either player. Therefore, I will send this Fuze back, but get another one.

Thanks for the help!

Last edited by Keeper; 02-17-2011 at 11:43 PM.
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  #7  
Old 02-17-2011, 11:10 PM
skip252 skip252 is online now
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You can probably identify the spot where the light is leaking through by taking a look at the teardown. As I said before I processed through quite a few Fuzes and never noticed anything like that.

While you're waiting for your RMA to be authorized you can always work on getting things volume matched and doing some listening. While I would guess anything severe enough to affect the SQ would probably stop it from working all together I could be wrong.
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Old 02-18-2011, 12:03 AM
skip252 skip252 is online now
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Glad things are working themselve out. I hope there's no problem with the RMA and you're able to tell us how much you enjoy your new (refurbed) Fuze shortly.
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  #9  
Old 02-18-2011, 12:31 AM
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Marvin the Martian Marvin the Martian is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keeper View Post
On another SQ note - while slight use of EQ on the Clip + really did enhance the SQ, when I made the same tweaks of the EQ (low frequencies) on the Fuze, the overall volume seemed to reduce and the sound became terribly muddied! No worries, I do not usually use EQ at all. I think I was just testing it out on the Clip a couple of weeks ago and forgot that I made the changes. All other problems with the SQ was a matter of my not realizing the settings on either player. Therefore, I will send this Fuze back, but get another one.

Thanks for the help!
The highlighted statement above took me down memory lane. A couple years back when I had my first Fuze, I had the same results with its EQ and never used it again....and I remember realizing that they had improved the EQ when I got my first Clip+. Of course, that won't matter if you end up going down the Rockbox road, but not everyone likes to go that way.

Anyways, good luck with your next refurb!
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Old 02-18-2011, 05:26 PM
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I emailed the seller a pic of the player and wrote that I would be more than willing to do an RMA, rather than buy a new one from another seller, if he could guarantee that he had a player that was checked for defects and is operating properly. He emailed me that he had one. We spoke just now, and he said he will be sending the new one out in tonight's mail along with a return label for the one that I have. I am happy that I do not have to pay return shipping. We are going to just exchange players, not accessories. Even with the holiday, I should have it next Wednesday. Once again, I am excited about it! It's gonna all work out this time!

Last edited by Keeper; 02-18-2011 at 05:33 PM.
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  #11  
Old 02-18-2011, 10:46 PM
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Nice keeper...enjoy and glad you used a reasonable seller...

Post back when you get the replacement.
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Old 02-22-2011, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lestatar View Post
Nice keeper...enjoy and glad you used a reasonable seller...

Post back when you get the replacement.
I picked up my replacement this morning and am loving it. Not bad - Sent from Cali on Friday and arrived in NY yesterday. It looks new and all peices are properly sealed. and of course, it sounds great! I want to thank all of you - lestatar, Marvin the Martian, skip252, psgarcha92, and McDougal - for your feedback and suggestions.

Last edited by Keeper; 02-22-2011 at 03:25 PM.
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  #13  
Old 02-22-2011, 03:10 PM
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Very nice to hear! Pretty much parallels my experience with them. I got a refurb Clip with a completely dead battery that wouldn't start to charge even after a full day on a wall charger. I got in touch with them and 6 days later had a replacement I still use today.

Enjoy your "new" refurbed Fuze. Hope it lasts a nice, long time for you.
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Old 02-27-2011, 09:11 AM
gŁnter gŁnter is offline
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I was pretty sure that my fuze and the cowon iaudio7 werent sounding the same and it was really driving me insane, testing them over and over again.
With EQ and without.
Today I checked again with both players, same passages in a song and I couldnt find a difference.
Maybe it was simply that the volume wasnt matched.

The fuze seems to be only undistortet at no more than -10 db. But this I can only hear in the car when I turn the volume completely up.
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