Windows Phone Sales Are "Catastrophic"

[steinburger1109]

Originally Posted by weedalin

Consumers won't take that bullcrap. They have 2 year contracts; do you really think they're going to accept "Oh, it'll get better in >2 years, the development cycle hasn't started yet" when there's clear evidence that the competition has released faster not only bug fixes, but major releases as well?

Consumers don't need to buy into it. People who want WP7 can get it. People who want what will come out in two years can have it then. MS will blunder ahead either way.

Originally Posted by weedalin

Live Tiles, ok. They weren't that practical of a feature in the first place; I don't see how any of this brings WP7 past any of the current OS's.

Live Tiles are a great idea, IMO. They really put anything you need at a glance. It's things like this that WP7 has that others don't that makes them in the same arena despite what's currently lacking.

Originally Posted by weedalin

And the "Apple's playing catch-up now too" argument is nonsensical. Apple is in a position right now to play catch up if they feel like it--Microsoft isn't.

All three of the OS's discussed here have different aspects that put them ahead of the others. In that regard, they are all playing catch up with each other.

Originally Posted by weedalin

And cohesiveness/integration? iCloud is the best in-class cloud solution right now; WP7 has nothing comparable. I'd like to know exactly which features/capabilities you seem to think are more cohesive and integrated.

iCloud is actually behind the times. Before iCloud, there was Skydrive and Google Music. Now, if Mango and iOS come out at very similar times, then full compatibility with clouds will come to both devices at the same time. But to answer your question, do you have a WP7? Do you have an XBox 360? Do you have a PC? The media functions of all these devices are brilliantly integrated. I can start watching a video in the software on my computer, then pause it and go resume from the same place on my XBox, and then sync it to my Phone (in my case, ZuneHD) and resume it from there. Currently w/ Skydrive, you can read/download/edit documents and images. With Mango, you can stream music. I don't know about videos.

Originally Posted by Strider_Aus

It's commerically sensible when viewed in the context of a 3-5 yr plan. It doesn't however stop me from diagreeing, expecting more from MS and challenging why the heck they haven't hard launched and thrown Consumer Marketing mega-$$$ at the platform. However with Nokia, Mango and Win8 coming - this is where I think they WILL be in 2012.

I do think marketing is a big problem with WP7. No one knows it well, and it pisses me off, TBH.

Originally Posted by weedalin

Then that's not anything new either. Still catch-up. I know how it looks aesthetically, but as much as tries to emulate webOS, it won't come even close.

Only catch-up to Android...

Originally Posted by weedalin

And to be honest, iOS borrowed a majority of the bigger features (better notifications, iCloud, etc.) from webOS and Android as opposed to WP7. iMessage was inspired by BBM rather than WP7.

Did you bother reading Strider's link? There were about 8 different features that were listed in Belfiore's tweets.

Strider, bringin' a little action to your forum.

[CrowdAds]

[Strider_Aus]

Originally Posted by steinburger1109

Strider, bringin' a little action to your forum.

LOL Tnx Stein... I've been enjoying the discussion with weedalin. I feel like that guy leaning against a building on the sidewalk, wrapped up in his own world, with the traffic passing him buy in an endless, flowing stream. Then someone stops, comes up to me and asks for directions and suddenly he is conencted to the stream of humanity again hehehe

And - I keep reassuring myself that my own WP7 Aussie Blog's numbers never get above 2000 hits a week because of WP7 and MS's damn soft-launch - zero marketing policy for WP7, and is not the fault of my newb blogging efforts lol

<fool's paradise>

Tnx for dropping by! My WP7 post in the ZuneHD section getting more traffic than this forum section nearly tipped me over into a "Falling Down" Michael Douglas moment.

To return to my earlier analogy: You want directions? I say to the man. Try this AK-47 in your face for a starter!

[steinburger1109]

No probs. I understand the feeling.

Ok, no I don't, but I'm an expert at feigning empathy.

BTW, I'm one of those 2000 hits. Probably 2 or 3, actually... :$

You do a good job with it. You know your shizzle and I enjoy it. Keep it up, buddy! And you know those of us that still like our Zunes will always be willing to jump into WP7 talks. Its nice for once to not have the most repeated statement be "MS doesn't pay attention to you anymore".

It's almost three in the morning and I have now derailed your thread. My deepest apologies. I'll be wandering to sleep now. Though, I must say, is it my sleep-deprived state or you that makes what you opened and ended with make no sense whatsoever?

[The DarkSide]

Stein derailing a thread, nooooooo - not possible!!!

[steinburger1109]

Yo, my first post was perfectly on-topic, and I would be more than open to going back on topic. I'd even go so far as to say that Strider was the first off-topicor, and I exasperated it, and now you're making it worse. Oh, and now I'm making it even worse. Yiggidy. BTW, go to bed! It's 4 if I'm not mistaken...

[Confispect]

Just checking in got a new pair of Skull Candies what where we talking about again?

[weedalin]

Originally Posted by steinburger1109

Consumers don't need to buy into it. People who want WP7 can get it. People who want what will come out in two years can have it then. MS will blunder ahead either way.

And that's brilliant market strategy? Pffft. Yes, why bother to fix your horribly sluggish development cycle and continue thinking that being on-par will get you what you need?

And what? Consumers don't need to buy into WP7? Isn't that the whole point? Getting consumers to buy into this?

My point is that MS won't go on because of their failures; my point was that if MS keeps going on like this, WP7 will fail and lose, regardless of whether it stays on the market.

Originally Posted by steinburger1109

Live Tiles are a great idea, IMO. They really put anything you need at a glance. It's things like this that WP7 has that others don't that makes them in the same arena despite what's currently lacking.

Like? I've found that Live Tiles don't really give enough information to be actually useful.

Originally Posted by steinburger1109

All three of the OS's discussed here have different aspects that put them ahead of the others. In that regard, they are all playing catch up with each other.

You missed my point. My point was that even if you say that iOS 5 was catch-up, Apple is squarely in a position to play that role (for now); Microsoft is not. The last thing Microsoft can afford to do is be playing the catch-up role.

Originally Posted by steinburger1109

iCloud is actually behind the times. Before iCloud, there was Skydrive and Google Music. Now, if Mango and iOS come out at very similar times, then full compatibility with clouds will come to both devices at the same time.

You also missed my point on the iOS 5 and Mango coming out at the same time. My point was that Mango will lose the consumer x-factor if it releases close to iOS 5.

Originally Posted by steinburger1109

But to answer your question, do you have a WP7? Do you have an XBox 360? Do you have a PC?

Yes on two counts. I don't have a WP7.

Originally Posted by steinburger1109

The media functions of all these devices are brilliantly integrated. I can start watching a video in the software on my computer, then pause it and go resume from the same place on my XBox, and then sync it to my Phone (in my case, ZuneHD) and resume it from there. Currently w/ Skydrive, you can read/download/edit documents and images. With Mango, you can stream music. I don't know about videos.

I hadn't thought of that, but admittedly, media synchronization wasn't at the top of my consideration when comparing the OS's. Point conceded. But you can obtain similar functionality with iOS, can you not?

Originally Posted by steinburger1109

Only catch-up to Android...

If what saratoga told me is true, then it's catch-up to iOS, and that isn't even going into webOS/Android. webOS/Android kick both systems to the curb, and webOS tops out over Android; however, the market has basically spoken: having "true" multitasking (whatever that means) isn't so as important as having the appearance/usage patterns of "true" multitasking. The iOS system, while technically less powerful than webOS/Android, in most usage cases, will provide much of the same experience.

Originally Posted by steinburger1109

Did you bother reading Strider's link? There were about 8 different features that were listed in Belfiore's tweets.

I determined that most of them weren't game-changing. But if you want me to oblige . . .

Improved notifications:
-The functionality is derived from webOS and Android; the appearance, while conceptually similar, doesn't mean diddly squat.

Ergonomic Keyboard:
-Er. Barely important. Not worth taking pride in.

Built-in Twitter:
-Nothing to say about this since WP7's Twitter integration hasn't been revealed yet.
-Actually, nevermind. It seems my initial instinct was right, and WP7's Twitter integration adds it to the People Hub and the Browser. But how does this imply "catching up" to WP7? If anything, iOS's Twitter integration outstrips WP7's by the sheer fact that it's apparent in more places. Can you Tweet from your photos? Location? Or are there more pieces to the WP7 Twitter integration puzzle that I'm just missing?

Background Download Service:
-Also not game-changing. webOS has allowed a derivative of this feature from the very beginning of its inception into the market.

Messaging Improvements:
-Most of these improvements were derived directly from BBM (the entire concept was pooled from BBM, as a matter of fact). Any influence from WP7 isn't significant enough to be worth a comparison, unless you want to stretch reality a bit.

iCloud Auto-Photo Upload:
-Not particularly game-changing, but useful enough to get a bolding. I will acknowledge that this could be significant, and was significantly influenced by WP7 (some people have told me that HTC actually did this first with Sense; could anyone confirm/disprove?).

Wi-Fi Sync:
-Somewhat relevant. Depends on usage scenarios.

Camera from Lock:
-Probably game-changing depending on usage scenario.

Unrelated side-note: You're from Naperville? o___________________0 I lived there.

On the Nokia note, I will have to agree; Nokia will be the lynchpin to WP7's success (or failure?) on the hardware side.

[Confispect]

[weedalin]

Originally Posted by Confispect

I see what you did thar.

I see what you did thar.

[steinburger1109]

Originally Posted by weedalin

And that's brilliant market strategy? Pffft. Yes, why bother to fix your horribly sluggish development cycle and continue thinking that being on-par will get you what you need?

And what? Consumers don't need to buy into WP7? Isn't that the whole point? Getting consumers to buy into this?

My point is that MS won't go on because of their failures; my point was that if MS keeps going on like this, WP7 will fail and lose, regardless of whether it stays on the market.

I'm not saying it's good, and I'm not saying WP7 is ahead of the game right now. But I am saying that they aren't in bad shape right now. They kinda seem to have a habit of playing catch-up, and doing that well (XBox 360, not Zune )

Originally Posted by weedalin

Like? I've found that Live Tiles don't really give enough information to be actually useful.

Well, the thing I can think of off the top of my head is something like email. Being able to see if you have a new message. Or weather can be helpful. You don't have to launch the app or a browser, you can just glance at the tile. Little stuff like that.

[quote=weedalin;567920]You missed my point. My point was that even if you say that iOS 5 was catch-up, Apple is squarely in a position to play that role (for now); Microsoft is not. The last thing Microsoft can afford to do is be playing the catch-up role.

I don't think anyone's ever in better position than anyone else to play catch up. If Apple doesn't continue innovating and bringing great new features, then people are going to move on. The tech industry is extremely fast-moving, and even if they're on top for now, there is absolutely no guarantee it'll stay that way for long.

Originally Posted by weedalin

You also missed my point on the iOS 5 and Mango coming out at the same time. My point was that Mango will lose the consumer x-factor if it releases close to iOS 5.

I understand, and to be honest I don't remember what I said. It was late at night I'll come back and edit this after I post to properly respond.

Ok, well what you quoted wasn't in response to that, it was in response to this:
"Originally Posted by weedalin
And cohesiveness/integration? iCloud is the best in-class cloud solution right now; WP7 has nothing comparable. I'd like to know exactly which features/capabilities you seem to think are more cohesive and integrated."

Originally Posted by weedalin

Yes on two counts. I don't have a WP7.

Well then, if you use a lot of media on your XBox (like streaming videos from your computer or music while playing a game or looking at pictures w/ it) you understand part of the integration. When you add a portable player in there with it, it's really freakin' awesome.

Originally Posted by weedalin

I hadn't thought of that, but admittedly, media synchronization wasn't at the top of my consideration when comparing the OS's. Point conceded. But you can obtain similar functionality with iOS, can you not?

Fair enough, but it should be considered, particularly if you're part of the consumer base that wants to use their WP7/iPhone/Android as your main player. And no, iOS doesn't have anything like it unless you're one of the very few that have an AppleTV. I think AppleTV comes close to the integration Windows has with XBox, but I know that iPod Touches don't have the same media sync sorta thing I described before that Zune and ZuneHD/WP7 have. I would only assume that Android has nothing at all like it because they don't have the software/walled-garden style ecosystem. A lot of people throw shit around because of the walled-garden, but it's got its benefits as well.

Originally Posted by weedalin

If what saratoga told me is true, then it's catch-up to iOS, and that isn't even going into webOS/Android. webOS/Android kick both systems to the curb, and webOS tops out over Android; however, the market has basically spoken: having "true" multitasking (whatever that means) isn't so as important as having the appearance/usage patterns of "true" multitasking. The iOS system, while technically less powerful than webOS/Android, in most usage cases, will provide much of the same experience.

WP7 and iOS are on the same plane as far as multi-tasking goes, if I'm not mistaken. They both can "multi-task," but neither actually run multiple programs in their entirety at once. I think saratoga is right, but you misread him. Unless I misread him...

Originally Posted by weedalin

Improved notifications:
-The functionality is derived from webOS and Android; the appearance, while conceptually similar, doesn't mean diddly squat.

Agreed, but regardless it hit WP7 prior to iOS. I suppose it's more of WP7 and iOS following Android and webOS, but, yea. I would assume that there ARE people out there that do care about this though.

Originally Posted by weedalin

Ergonomic Keyboard:
-Er. Barely important. Not worth taking pride in.

Heh, I'm not quite sure what it means by ergonomic keyboard specifically but if it means just improvement to the keyboard, that's really important. iOS keyboad sucks SO bad.

Originally Posted by weedalin

Built-in Twitter:
-Nothing to say about this since WP7's Twitter integration hasn't been revealed yet.
-Actually, nevermind. It seems my initial instinct was right, and WP7's Twitter integration adds it to the People Hub and the Browser. But how does this imply "catching up" to WP7? If anything, iOS's Twitter integration outstrips WP7's by the sheer fact that it's apparent in more places. Can you Tweet from your photos? Location? Or are there more pieces to the WP7 Twitter integration puzzle that I'm just missing?

I honestly don't know.

Originally Posted by weedalin

Background Download Service:
-Also not game-changing. webOS has allowed a derivative of this feature from the very beginning of its inception into the market.

Messaging Improvements:
-Most of these improvements were derived directly from BBM (the entire concept was pooled from BBM, as a matter of fact). Any influence from WP7 isn't significant enough to be worth a comparison, unless you want to stretch reality a bit.

Then my response is the same as the first part.

Originally Posted by weedalin

iCloud Auto-Photo Upload:
-Not particularly game-changing, but useful enough to get a bolding. I will acknowledge that this could be significant, and was significantly influenced by WP7 (some people have told me that HTC actually did this first with Sense; could anyone confirm/disprove?).

Uhhh...

Originally Posted by weedalin

Wi-Fi Sync:
-Somewhat relevant. Depends on usage scenarios.

Yea, I don't use it at all, but I can see why it would be awesome. Actually, I'm gonna start using that for my podcasts. You just reminded me about this... Grazie.

Originally Posted by weedalin

Camera from Lock:
-Probably game-changing depending on usage scenario.

I find this extremely useful! Being able to take candid pictures easily is important to all varieties of people, whether you're a parent or grandparent taking pictures of children or a teen hanging out with your friends and you want to capture the funny moments.

Originally Posted by weedalin

Unrelated side-note: You're from Naperville? o___________________0 I lived there.

PM sent! When, where?

Originally Posted by weedalin

On the Nokia note, I will have to agree; Nokia will be the lynchpin to WP7's success (or failure?) on the hardware side.

Nokia will help WP7. MS needs more third party support, on the hardware, service, and app fronts.

[Confispect]

[steinburger1109]

Oh you invited a bro to the show?

[weedalin]

Originally Posted by steinburger1109

I'm not saying it's good, and I'm not saying WP7 is ahead of the game right now. But I am saying that they aren't in bad shape right now. They kinda seem to have a habit of playing catch-up, and doing that well (XBox 360, not Zune )

They aren't in too bad of a shape yet. If they continue along like they have been, they will be.

Originally Posted by steinburger1109

Well, the thing I can think of off the top of my head is something like email. Being able to see if you have a new message. Or weather can be helpful. You don't have to launch the app or a browser, you can just glance at the tile. Little stuff like that.

My primary reason for saying that Live Tiles aren't the most helpful thing in the world is because of the Mango Preview This Is My Next did.

Originally Posted by Chris Ziegler

Don’t let the Windows Phone commercials fool you — you’re not going to be able to glance at these tiles and divine all the information you need — but they’re really attractive ways to lively up your home screen while making it really easy to, say, see what new pictures of your old high school buddies have shown up on Facebook today.

Originally Posted by steinburger1109

I don't think anyone's ever in better position than anyone else to play catch up. If Apple doesn't continue innovating and bringing great new features, then people are going to move on. The tech industry is extremely fast-moving, and even if they're on top for now, there is absolutely no guarantee it'll stay that way for long.

Oh, I don't know. I see many similarities between iOS's current domination and Windows's domination during the 80's-90's-early 2000's. When you're that far ahead, I think it definitely gives some room for catch-up. Microsoft doesn't have any room to be playing catch-up since it's a new platform in a relatively more mature market.

Originally Posted by steinburger1109

Well then, if you use a lot of media on your XBox (like streaming videos from your computer or music while playing a game or looking at pictures w/ it) you understand part of the integration. When you add a portable player in there with it, it's really freakin' awesome.

I've dabbled with making my Xbox a pseudo-HTPC; just been too lazy to go about doing it. Not to mention I lack the disposable income to really get into the media stuff.

Originally Posted by steinburger1109

WP7 and iOS are on the same plane as far as multi-tasking goes, if I'm not mistaken. They both can "multi-task," but neither actually run multiple programs in their entirety at once. I think saratoga is right, but you misread him. Unless I misread him...

Which is why I said that WP7 is playing catch-up to primarily iOS with this update.

Originally Posted by steinburger1109

Heh, I'm not quite sure what it means by ergonomic keyboard specifically but if it means just improvement to the keyboard, that's really important. iOS keyboad sucks SO bad.

I disagree with this; iOS's keyboard is pretty accurate, even though I would probably give the slight edge to WP7's keyboard.

I was also under the impression that the Messaging improvements coming to WP7 were actually coming in Mango, as opposed to them having been there since NoDo.

[medion]

When you start behind, you have to play catch up, Weed, no way around that. The trick to playing catch up while still drawing interest from consumers is to offer something that the other platforms don't. While WP7 is still doing this catch up, it still offers a lot that Android/iOS don't, such as (but not limited to);

-multiple manufacturers and device configurations while still being consistent across devices
-a different UI (better or worse doesn't matter, so long as it's not another i-clone)
-integration with various MS platforms and services

WP7 is, IMO, a very legit offering. I'm truly baffled as to why it's still seeing such lousy market penetration. Sure, they could do a better job of marketing it. Also, the current lackluster showing on Verizon and Sprint doesn't help, but a solid lineup on AT&T should have been more than enough to kill that 1-2% market share they currently have.

I truly believe that WP7 is an outstanding platform. MS surprised me. Their update pace seems to be pretty good as well, at least on par with iOS. Given the way that contracts work, they shouldn't be harshly judged on their market share until the 2 year mark. That's about how long it took for Android to start taking off (and now look at it).

I think that there is room for 3 major platforms in this market. The question is, which will it be after iOS and Android? To be honest, my preference would have been to have iOS, WebOS, and Meego as the big three. However, WebOS needs to be opened up to more manufacturers, and Meego needs to quit being aborted. I'm ok with settling for iOS/Android/WP7. But, the latter two have some serious issues that need to be addressed.

[weedalin]

Originally Posted by medion

When you start behind, you have to play catch up, Weed, no way around that. The trick to playing catch up while still drawing interest from consumers is to offer something that the other platforms don't. While WP7 is still doing this catch up, it still offers a lot that Android/iOS don't, such as (but not limited to)

Not quite. Companies have to provide features that are useful and attractive to consumers as well as unique. Being different just for the sake of being different doesn't necessarily work.

Originally Posted by medion

-multiple manufacturers and device configurations while still being consistent across devices

This can be good and bad. In most cases, it narrows your market focus and dilutes device diversity, but also makes choices for consumers much easier in most circumstances.

Originally Posted by medion

-integration with various MS platforms and services

I'm sure tons of people use Windows, but how many use enough other Microsoft services/platforms to constitute a significant target market?

Originally Posted by medion

WP7 is, IMO, a very legit offering. I'm truly baffled as to why it's still seeing such lousy market penetration. Sure, they could do a better job of marketing it. Also, the current lackluster showing on Verizon and Sprint doesn't help, but a solid lineup on AT&T should have been more than enough to kill that 1-2% market share they currently have.

Consumers are fickle creatures, are they not?

Originally Posted by medion

I truly believe that WP7 is an outstanding platform. MS surprised me. Their update pace seems to be pretty good as well, at least on par with iOS.

Major updates? They're ok on that front, but from the minor updates perspective (which do matter to consumers), they've all but failed.

Originally Posted by medion

Given the way that contracts work, they shouldn't be harshly judged on their market share until the 2 year mark. That's about how long it took for Android to start taking off (and now look at it).

We'll have to see. As you said before, it was largely due to the success of the Droid that kicked off Android's meteoric growth; I have yet to see such a defining phone from WP7--perhaps Nokia will fix that.

[steinburger1109]

Originally Posted by weedalin

My primary reason for saying that Live Tiles aren't the most helpful thing in the world is because of the Mango Preview This Is My Next did.

Besides his sarcastic comments about Facebook there, he pretty much affirms what I said. Being able to see things like the weather, if you have a new email, or Facebook notifications without launching the app or browser is valuable, IMO.

Originally Posted by weedalin

Which is why I said that WP7 is playing catch-up to primarily iOS with this update.

How so? They both are the same similar right now, and both will be receiving better versions of the feature with the next update. Neither is playing catch up in the multi-tasking game unless you throw Android into the mix.

Originally Posted by weedalin

I disagree with this; iOS's keyboard is pretty accurate, even though I would probably give the slight edge to WP7's keyboard.

Really? I can't stand my Touch's keyboard... Different strokes, then, I suppose.

@medion, I used the Palm Pre extensively and played around with the Pre 2 a decent amount. Both were very underwhelming, particularly the lack of fluidity in the OS. It was very laggy/jumpy and frustrating, IMO. webOS has probably come a long way since my last in-depth use of it, but that's where my eyes fall on webOS.

[weedalin]

Originally Posted by steinburger1109

Besides his sarcastic comments about Facebook there, he pretty much affirms what I said. Being able to see things like the weather, if you have a new email, or Facebook notifications without launching the app or browser is valuable, IMO.

I'm pretty sure he wasn't being sarcastic. o___0 His point was that Live Tiles, for all they're touted, aren't as useful as the commercials claim.

Originally Posted by steinburger1109

How so? They both are the same similar right now, and both will be receiving better versions of the feature with the next update. Neither is playing catch up in the multi-tasking game unless you throw Android into the mix.

iOS has had a multitasking system for a while now. WP7 will just be getting it when iOS 5 comes out. I'd have to say that's catch-up.

Originally Posted by steinburger1109

@medion, I used the Palm Pre extensively and played around with the Pre 2 and Pre 3 a decent amount. All three were very underwhelming, particularly the lack of fluidity in the OS. It was very laggy/jumpy and frustrating, IMO. webOS has probably come a long way since my last in-depth use of it, but that's where my eyes fall on webOS.

I've overclocked my Palm Pre Plus, and it runs webOS 2.1 fairly well. The Pre 2 seems to run it well, but I'll have to call BS on your claim that you've played around with a Pre 3. The only people who've had access to Pre 3's have been the press.

[steinburger1109]

[quote=weedalin;568084]I'm pretty sure he wasn't being sarcastic. o___0 His point was that Live Tiles, for all they're touted, aren't as useful as the commercials claim.

Really? I read that as sarcastic. Well, I just plain out disagree with him. From what I understand of what they do, they're very useful.

Originally Posted by weedalin

iOS has had a multitasking system for a while now. WP7 will just be getting it when iOS 5 comes out. I'd have to say that's catch-up.

But it isn't actual multi-tasking. So no, they're both gonna hit the same point at about the same time. Not catch up.

Originally Posted by weedalin

I've overclocked my Palm Pre Plus, and it runs webOS 2.1 fairly well. The Pre 2 seems to run it well, but I'll have to call BS on your claim that you've played around with a Pre 3. The only people who've had access to Pre 3's have been the press.

I downgraded from smart phones a decent while ago, and tbh, that was before I became particularly technologically literate. So all I have is my impression that it was fairly laggy. Logic tells me it should have improved, but it's been a while.

[weedalin]

Originally Posted by steinburger1109

Really? I read that as sarcastic. Well, I just plain out disagree with him. From what I understand of what they do, they're very useful.

I've found that notifications in the other OS's pretty much serve the same purpose as Live Tiles (in terms of Messaging/Email; the Weather thing isn't really major). The People Live Tile arbitrarily chooses which status updates/profile pictures to display, so it serves as no practical use to the user at all.

Originally Posted by steinburger1109

But it isn't actual multi-tasking. So no, they're both gonna hit the same point at about the same time. Not catch up.

No, iOS has already hit that point; WP7 is the one catching up.

And I've already said this before, but whether some system is "true" multitasking doesn't matter; what does matter is that the system itself gives off the impression that its allowing for multitasking.

Originally Posted by steinburger1109

I downgraded from smart phones a decent while ago, and tbh, that was before I became particularly technologically literate. So all I have is my impression that it was fairly laggy. Logic tells me it should have improved, but it's been a while.

That hasn't been confirmed by any of the major tech news websites. Not even a hint of a rumor at a date has been revealed yet. And I'm pretty sure that what your friend did was certainly against any NDA he would have had to sign.

[steinburger1109]

I don't have the time to respond to it all, but this:

Originally Posted by weedalin

And I'm pretty sure that what your friend did was certainly against any NDA he would have had to sign.

Is probably true. And I'm a dipshit for not thinking about that before I started yappin'. For that reason, I'm removing what I said. Thanks for understanding, even if you don't. I'll put it back up if I find out it's not of coincidence to him. Weedalin, I'd very much appreciate if you could remove it from your quote, as well.