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  #81  
Old 08-11-2011, 03:09 AM
Beduin Beduin is offline
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I have never seen any headphonamplifier manufacturer backing up his product with so much details. And he not only makes the amplifier, with his blog he is educating the whole community, so they do get a completely new view on what is going on in the Head-Fi business. No wonder he is scaring a lot of headphone equipment makers, selling "Snake Oil". In discussions he is backing up his messages with math, and numbers. While the opponents lacks his education and knowledge, they just try to defend their failures by putting up a lot of bullcrap. After reading his blog, I have stopped reading Head-Fi, except the part considering his O2. I think this O2 amplifier is going to revolutionize the business. And I myself will buy several of them, when there is a ready board. It is very nasty to see how people with lack of proper engineering skills and knowledge of Head-Fi engineering, are attacking this person. But I think they will lose in the end. They banned, maybe the most knowledgable forum member of Head-Fi and amb, because certain interests were threatened. Thanks for abi forums, letting the inventor of O2 write here. This forum is serving their members and not their advertisers, and with this intention more and more people will leave head-fi and participate here instead..
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  #82  
Old 08-11-2011, 10:01 AM
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Thanks everyone for all the support and positive comments. It's especially timely as one or more people have resorted to trolling/spamming my blog comments in much the same way objective threads are often attacked at Head-Fi. I've tried to publish and respond to the posts, but it's become bad enough I've just stopped approving the comments. It's kind of sad really as previously I have approved all but a small handful of posts and most of those were due to offensive language.

Rather than have a rational discussion about the facts, it seems some of my critics prefer a much more childish approach. It reminds me of some "dumb jocks" I knew in high school. When confronted with something they didn't understand or agree with, their first response was to blindly go on the offensive. For now it's easy enough to click the "select all" box and the Delete button in the comments management panel. If it continues, I'll talk to my friends at Google as I know Google tracks all the IPs.

In other news, the new PCB is supposed to be here today so I should be able to get the Version 1.1 O2 built up and start testing it. I have my fingers crossed I didn't mess anything up and it will perform at least as well as the previous version.

Once I approve the new board, I'll release the PCB files into the wild, and that includes the vendors who have expressed an interest in offering the O2 bare board, possible kits, assembled boards, etc.
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  #83  
Old 08-11-2011, 10:45 AM
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it continues, I'll talk to my friends at Google as I know Google tracks all the IPs.
... Ok, I'll be sure never to get on your wrong side now.

Anyway, really nice that we non-DIYers will be able to experince the O2 soon ! Nevermind the crazy hype-fi people, that's just the way some of them react. They are envious of the fact you know more about audio than most of them ever will, even with their $10 999 power cords, $790 DAPs and $959 voodoo paperweights, all heard through their superhuman, magical golden ears.
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  #84  
Old 08-11-2011, 11:04 AM
Beduin Beduin is offline
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I am waiting for Kindle 4, new Sony reader, New ipod releases, but most of all I want the Objective 2. It is a pity that you are experiencing all the spam at your superb blog. But there are a lot of people losing a lot of money and credibillity, and they try some desperate attempts to stop you. It is not a long time since Singlepower amps were "state of the art". But someone managed to open his amp, and after that his success was over. You managed to find problems with Nuforce, Schiit and amb projects among others. They sure take this hard. You even exposed Head-Fi, so people got to see who they are supporting. Keep on! I am sure most of the people are on your side. It is the good vs. evil.
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  #85  
Old 08-11-2011, 11:23 AM
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The anonymous comments lately have been on the original O2 Headphone Amp article and the Subjective vs Objective Debate article. The ones I haven't published have been sent to Blogger's spam folder and are not visible.

First the argument was made people should somehow embrace distortion as it's unavoidable and intentionally added to recordings. Then they tried to argue that reactive loads make measurements invalid. Then they tried to argue music was more complex than sine waves. Then they switched to all amps have distortion and there's no perfect amplifier so why even bother to measure them. Then there were several posts with things like "well I listened to the UberAmp the other day and it clearly sounded different than the EconoAmp so you're obviously wrong". Etc.

It seems to me they're just trying to pick fights and/or throw up the same tired audiophile arguments that have never stood up to any reasonable scrutiny. And when I refused to publish a few the tone switched to being more subtle and trying to seem like they would "like to believe in me" but somehow just can't.
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  #86  
Old 08-11-2011, 12:30 PM
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Its kind of sad you've had to start doing that. On the one hand, you're basically sinking to their level. On the other hand trying to keep up with it is basically a full time job.

In 5 minutes a skilled BS artist can write something it would take 5 hours to properly rebut. There really isn't a winning move...
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  #87  
Old 08-11-2011, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by maverickronin View Post
Its kind of sad you've had to start doing that. On the one hand, you're basically sinking to their level. On the other hand trying to keep up with it is basically a full time job.

In 5 minutes a skilled BS artist can write something it would take 5 hours to properly rebut. There really isn't a winning move...
I fail to see how not replying to trolling and spamming is 'sinking down to their level'. He has a moral obligation to reply to every petty, flawed argument they can throw at him now?
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  #88  
Old 08-11-2011, 01:16 PM
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#Maverick It is sad, but let's not dwell on the guys trying to crash to party. The whole idea is to let the O2, assorted facts, measurements, proven research, blind tests, etc. stand on their own merits. There will always be critics/skeptics/etc no matter what.

@Cain, the sad part, to me at least, is having to censor comments. I honestly can't tell if some of them are genuine or a carefully veiled attempt to just dilute the comments as so often happens on Head-Fi. And I'm sure that might be their intent. But, as Maverick said, there really isn't a winning move here. If I publish everything the comments sections become ungainly and nobody will want to read them. If I don't some will accuse me of censorship.
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  #89  
Old 08-11-2011, 01:34 PM
Beduin Beduin is offline
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Sensoring spam is a must. What it is all about, is bringing out the message to the people. We don`t want to be cheated anymore. People have wasted thousands and maybe millions of dollars on garbage Head-fi equipment. And the more these evil people try to destroy for you, the more people will see who is the genuine expert here. They are so frightened now, that they hardly know what to do. It took One Man to destroy the credibillity to several well known main actors in this head-fi business. And i guess several others that have been cheating, are scared to find out that suddenly your next review will be of one of their items. Don`t let them ware you out, you get more and more followers for every day passing.
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  #90  
Old 08-11-2011, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NwAvGuy View Post
#Maverick It is sad, but let's not dwell on the guys trying to crash to party. The whole idea is to let the O2, assorted facts, measurements, proven research, blind tests, etc. stand on their own merits. There will always be critics/skeptics/etc no matter what.

@Cain, the sad part, to me at least, is having to censor comments. I honestly can't tell if some of them are genuine or a carefully veiled attempt to just dilute the comments as so often happens on Head-Fi. And I'm sure that might be their intent. But, as Maverick said, there really isn't a winning move here. If I publish everything the comments sections become ungainly and nobody will want to read them. If I don't some will accuse me of censorship.
Because HF is a loving nest of freedom of speech, right? Hey, I have a brilliant idea. How about you make a comment-only post called Sound Faith and make it subjective-only, banning subjective discussion from everywhere else. I am sure they'll find it reasonable and fair (as well as extremely familiar), specially if they are HF staff.

Disclaimer: Since the internet is such a terrible way to convey emotions, let me state it right now before someone misinterprets this post: I am being sarcastic.
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  #91  
Old 08-11-2011, 02:35 PM
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I fail to see how not replying to trolling and spamming is 'sinking down to their level'. He has a moral obligation to reply to every petty, flawed argument they can throw at him now?

The point is that by Poe's Law there's no way to distinguish something put forth as an actual argument from someone just trying to get a reaction out of you. No matter how brain-dead the argument is, there is probably someone who seriously advances it so you can't assume they're trolling just because they're being stupid and whoever gets their comments blocked will accuse NwAvGuy of censorship.

I do think that after accusing another forum of censoring content for profit you are morally obligated to not censor anything other than outright spam on your own site. Of course, such high ideals rarely survive unscathed after contact with reality so I can forgive NwAvGuy for being slightly hypocritical after he's been bludgeoned into it. After all, unless you're as adept at one line comebacks as Christopher Hitchens or something it will literally be a full time job to rebut each "argument" and if he doesn't do that the comments will become bloated and useless.

I actually think that the idea of a separate thread or post somewhere to discuss this kind of stuff is a good idea. If the stupidity is all collected in the same place it can be dealt with collectively instead of NwAvGuy wasting all his time writing individual responses to individual comments.
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  #92  
Old 08-11-2011, 02:51 PM
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Thanks guys. And Maverick, are you suggesting I have a new article devoted to the critics and direct everyone to leave their questionable comments there? Or a new thread here on ABI? Or ???

I like the idea but I don't know how well it will work in practice. And, unfortunately, Google's Blogger doesn't let me "re-direct" comments to a different article. So if people post them in the wrong place I can only publish or not publish the comment as-is.
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  #93  
Old 08-11-2011, 03:30 PM
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Knowing the Internet, the best approach is probably to let everything through except blatantly offensive posts. You don't necessarily have to reply to everything, but censoring is asking for trouble most of the time.
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  #94  
Old 08-11-2011, 03:36 PM
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Nah, delete everything.
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  #95  
Old 08-11-2011, 03:40 PM
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Knowing the Internet, the best approach is probably to let everything through except blatantly offensive posts. You don't necessarily have to reply to everything, but censoring is asking for trouble most of the time.
That's what I've been doing since February until yesterday. If you saw some of these posts, however, you might better understand. The intent seems to be to make the comments on my blog sufficiently obtuse that many will lose interest trying to sort through all the nonsense.

It's commonplace at Head-Fi. You end up with 400+ posts in a thread and only 40 of them have any substance. The other 360 were seemingly added by those trying to derail the thread and bury the facts.
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  #96  
Old 08-11-2011, 03:46 PM
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I suppose you could remove redundant comments as well. Things like questions that have already been answered, or so-called doubts that have already been raised. Most of the junk is just repetitive, after all.
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  #97  
Old 08-11-2011, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NwAvGuy View Post
Thanks guys. And Maverick, are you suggesting I have a new article devoted to the critics and direct everyone to leave their questionable comments there? Or a new thread here on ABI? Or ???

I like the idea but I don't know how well it will work in practice. And, unfortunately, Google's Blogger doesn't let me "re-direct" comments to a different article. So if people post them in the wrong place I can only publish or not publish the comment as-is.

I'm not really sure where the best place to condense everything might be, and with most people leaving them anonymously and not having the ability to redirect them it will be hard to keep everything straight.

What might work is to have some sot of clearly stated comment policy for different types of posts and warn people ahead of time that certain posts may have their comments pruned for readability and that if they have one of their comments not approved they should post it somewhere else like a post about your critics on your blog or maybe a dedicated thread on another forum.

After that you need to make sure the policy is clear and have a link to where such things should be debated instead within the post (like a disclaimer at the end) so no one can accuse you of trying to hide whatever the "critics" say.

Something like:

"The comments on this post will be moderated for usefulness and readability. Comments in this post are primarily for the purposes of answering questions and providing constructive criticism. If you have a fundamental disagrement with the methodology I use or wish to engage in some sort of debate then please post such comments here instead. Because I can only approve or deny comments instead of editing or moving them, those comments I feel are off topic will be disallowed. If one of your comments is disallowed then feel free to post it here instead where comments will only be moderated for spam and abusive language."
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  #98  
Old 08-11-2011, 04:27 PM
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^ I like the idea.
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  #99  
Old 08-11-2011, 04:27 PM
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Thanks Maverick. I've already put some guidelines at the end of the Subject vs Objective comments. I can always revise them if I set up a suitable repository as you suggest.

Obviously a solution to being unable to edit/move comments is to move to Wordpress, self host, etc. But I have other priorities for my time, and having friends at Google, I'm somewhat partial to their platform. Regardless, the basic problem remains: I'm always going to be a threat to the beliefs of some and, given the chance, they'll go on the offensive.

Anyway, thanks again to everyone all for the input. I need to get back to the soldering iron and hopefully we can get this discussion back onto the O2.
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  #100  
Old 08-11-2011, 04:32 PM
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Aw yeah! You got your hands on the v1.1 board?



SWEET JESUS
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