sony volume policy

[renno61]

So all eu sony mp3 players have volume restriction due to lawsuit ,what would happen if someone done the opposite and sued because their mp3 player was not loud enough.
you could argue that it is your right to listen to loud music in freedom after all europe is a democracy?
why is there no alternative firmware for people who have hearing problems,this is discrimination against a minority.
older people ,hard of hearing dont they want music?

[tienbasse]

Your logic is a bit flawed, my friend.

You CAN be sued for having damaged someone's hearing due to high volume, easy to understand. Recent example is a class-action against Apple for early generation iPods, which were reaching insane volume (>100dB and not just peaks, average level).

You CAN'T sue someone because their products are not loud enough for YOUR taste. A pmp has no vital function, it's not an hearing aid for example, it is just for fun. If you don't like it, it's your problem, return it and buy another model which will suit your needs better.

By the way, no lawsuit that I know of. Sony is just applying to EU firmwares what is required by French law specifically. Each manufacturer make their own choices. Some only apply volume restriction to France, where it is mandatory. Others, like Sony since around 1 year ago, apply the restriction to all EU countries, probably for simplicity reasons (one firmware for all the EU, just easier to implement).
There are no european law (yet) to restrict volume, it was discussed 2 years ago but never voted.

And by the way, if people have hearing issues, there are things called hearing aids, which are specifically designed for that purpose. Pumping up copious amounts of high volume sound in damaged ears will only result in damaging your hearing further, since people are usually not equally deaf to all frequencies...

[renno61]

why no cap in us i understand John Kiel Patterson from Louisiana filed a class action lawsuit Jan. 31 2006 against apple ,are us ipods capped?
my ear are in good nick and i have had mp3 players a long time, the sony e-series is set far to low .
my mother who has hearing problems has to have the player set on 30,that full,with in ear buds.my sony nwa 3000 even without hack was louder.
I understand it was french law suit that enforcers the cap
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/forum/cd/...TxRI0WVW64C8NE
What next banning bright colours,restrictions on what you can wear?

[FreeZ5]

I guess my only comment is...go ahead waste your money start a lawsuit

[tienbasse]

Originally Posted by renno61

why no cap in us i understand John Kiel Patterson from Louisiana filed a class action lawsuit Jan. 31 2006 against apple ,are us ipods capped?

I can't comment for the whole US, since things may be different from one state to another.
US iPods may be capped because they were absolutely deafening (>100dB), that does not mean that they are capped at the same level as in France (<85dB), Apple may have chosen to reduce it because of the lawsuits. Since I'm not really an Apple fan, I can't say for sure.

Originally Posted by renno61

my ear are in good nick and i have had mp3 players a long time, the sony e-series is set far to low .
my mother who has hearing problems has to have the player set on 30,that full,with in ear buds.my sony nwa 3000 even without hack was louder.

While I admit that Sony may have capped more than other brand, it is very headphone-dependant (impedance, source level and many other parameters) and unfortunately, the French law setting up max level at 85dB fails big time telling how these 85dB should be measured... which could explain brand to brand differences.

Originally Posted by renno61

I understand it was french law suit that enforcers the cap
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/forum/cd/...TxRI0WVW64C8NE

These comments are uncomplete. I did some research a month ago regarding the legal origins of volum caps in Europe.
There were law suits in France, but you should know that class-action do not exist in France, so individual lawsuits rarely make big firms bend their knees, unless people start dying.
The French law enforcing a 85dB cap on PMPs originated from a few scientific studies showing hearing damages appearing months to years AFTER listening music at high volume. This is not an immediate process and vary considerably depending on individuals (I'm half deaf for 2 days after spending 2 hours in a nightclub, so I'm the typical sensitive person, you may not be but that does not mean damage cannot happen on the long term).
There is NO European law enforcing a cap (like I said, it was discussed by European deputees, based on the scientific evidence used for the French law, but it was never put to the vote).

In theory, only in France is the cap mandatory, but each manufacturer may do as they wish; and there is not much you can do to change that.

Sony may have gone a bit too far on the capping side, but if it is the only reproach that you have, maybe you could invest in a portable amplifier like the FiiO7 or FiiO11, they are cheap but perform really well.

Originally Posted by renno61

What next banning bright colours,restrictions on what you can wear?

Why are taking you this so seriously, clinical evidence for hearing damage has been studied seriously (as a R&D scientist, I can at least make this comment).
I don't think you're going to see anything similar related to bright colours or clothes anytime soon.

And it is not like you can't find players with higher volumes.

[renno61]

wish i could ,just blowing off steam .
i will stick with sansa in future

[IDvsEGO]

the suggestion of an amp is the best one yet. an e5 or e6 is cheap and should do the trick for you. sure it makes it a bit more expensive if you are over there but I bet we pay more for some stuff than you do so it evens out.

[renno61]

more efficient in-ear headphones or something like PA2V2, pico slim or cmoy diy amp .

[Weirdo87]

Originally Posted by renno61

my ear are in good nick and i have had mp3 players a long time, the sony e-series is set far to low .

I call bs on this. I have an e-series dap, and I typically set the volume to level 2 or 3. Right after I wake up, when my ears are more sensitive, I find level 1 a little too loud.

Either the volume is just fine, or your hearing sucks.

[skip252]

When did your ears become the standard for everyone? Why do you think they put all the other volume levels on there above the ones you use?

There are many that show up here willing to go to great lengths to increase the volume of their volume capped Sony. There's also quite a few that say the volume is just fine.

Point is that you can't call bullshit on something like this. Because it's enough for you doesn't mean it's enough for the next person. You don't have the only set of ears on the planet.

[renno61]

let put it this way i have three sansa ,two sony , archos , rio ,and a chinese £2 nano copy ,the sony nwz e443 series has the lowest volume.
the sony nwa3000 was louder even before the volume hack.were did you get your sony from weirdo 87 ?
By the way my hearing is excellent

[zlikovatz]

Question and advice please…
I had a Sony NWZ E 436f(bougt in 2008) and was absolutely overvelmed with it..easy to use, excellent sound, and a 45h battery…the little thing was going with me everywhere…and than it got stolen. So I bought this year Sony nwz 353f which suppposed to be pretty much the same but was I dissapointed..it looked really cheep, the buttons were awful and the most important it was unbelivably quite.. I got used to listening my nwz436 around 26-27 and it was really loud enough, but the 353 model was on the 30 all the time and I could't hear a thing. So I returned it. But since I'm a big fan of Sony models I decided to look for any kind of model which doesn't have a volume cap and has an outstanding battery. The 436 is so outdated that it's immposible to get a new one, but I'm thinking about a NWZ S639 model..also an old one but it's possible to get a good deal on ebay so I'm wandering does it have a volume cap. Any recomendations what to buy without volume cap(older models are also just fine), a great battery and fm radio.


Btw.I'm from Croatia(still non EU country) and we have the same crappy volume cap sony models.

[skip252]

Welcome to ABi

A similar question was asked here. The NWZ S639 was produced before Sony introduced their version of the volume cap so it should be OK.

I have that model but I would be hesitant to buy another one now. Mine still works fine but lithium batteries start deteriorating as soon as they are made. Depending on how it was stored the battery in an older model may or may not still work properly. The only way to tell would be to charge it and test how long it lasts now. Even then it certainly has less life expectancy than it did when it was first made. I believe I saw battery replacements for the S639 on eBay, you may want to check on that.

As for what other players to consider, take your pick. Sony is the only maker I know that caps the volume so that it can't be raised with a simple firmware update. The rest allow you to pick a region other than Europe during the update and the volume is uncapped after that.

[TexasRockbox]

Archos is notorious for its volume cap (after the AV500 series). The 605 is a case study in volume cap and manipulation of EQ and "bass boost".

[Jerommel]

Hi all,

I recently bought a used NWZ-E443.
Nice little device, 4 GB, no problems.
But come on! It is really not loud enough!!
It's pretty useless actually...
So, today I received my FiiO E6, but they didn't have the L5 (WM-PORT to 3.5mm jack), so I'm still looking for that...

Anyway, it's a nice way of Sony to ruin their own market...
I mean, the effing inventors of effing portable personal hifi??