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  #1  
Old 09-12-2013, 03:47 AM
Roboturner913 Roboturner913 is offline
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Cool A Discussion Of The Fuze+ Using Rockbox(from the Rockbox Theme:Googley Fuze thread)

I am using Clippy on my Fuze+ and it is fantastic. In fact I like it so much that I'm using it most of the time instead of the custom theme I made for myself. So thanks for creating it!

At this point I only have two issues with my Rockboxed Fuze+, and I suspect both are more hardware-related:

1) freezing and skipping playback. This happens at random when the EQ is turned on and the bass controls are anywhere above, let's say 6 or 7 (this is an issue for me since I usually have the bass around 17-20! Yes, I'm a basshead....) I suspect it's because the battery cannot supply the power the internal amp is demanding to pump out all those low frequencies. Normally I would just say to myself, "self, you are asking for too much bass", but my Clip+ and Clip Zip pull off the same settings with no problem and they theoretically have much lesser batteries.

2) battery drains really fast. Again, perhaps this is due to my settings, but I charged it to 88% last night, listened to one album and by the end of the album it was at 42%. A battery should not drain half its power in 40-something minutes.

Because of these issues my Fuze+ has essentially become the player I use around the house, while washing dishes or falling asleep or whatever. My Clip+ goes to work with me and stuff. Which is fine, but sometimes I wish I could look down in the middle of grocery shopping and see big pretty album art. But oh well, that's the breaks....
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  #2  
Old 09-12-2013, 10:54 AM
humersimpson humersimpson is offline
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Have you tried the latest version of RB? I had an issue with an earlier build of battery dying quickly and updated to a newer beta version and things have improved dramatically and now my Fuze+ no longer locks up when I leave it plugged into my car charger and the USB power-up turns the Fuze+ on. Before, that "cold start" would cause it to freeze and I would have to restart it without the USB attached and then re-attach the USB after the player had started up.

My only non-touchpad gripe left (I have concluded that the only way around the touchpad issue is if someone comes out with an aftermarket, replacement front that uses the thumbwheel similar to the original Fuze) will be removed if they ever figure out a way to have RB keep the dynamic (i.e. "Now Playing") playlist until the user changes it which would allow me to just hit "play" to get the "Now Playing" playlist to start over again.
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Old 09-12-2013, 01:54 PM
skip252 skip252 is offline
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I sometimes use some fairly radical settings and I'm not getting any skipping and my battery life is better than decent. I found that enabling more than a few bands in the EQ could cause problems but once I found a bass/treble boost along with tweaking the mids in a single band with a fairly wide Q value gets me the sound I like I haven't had any more skipping or freezing problems. Even before that the battery life was very good.

What bootloader are you using? I'm using the one pamaury posted here along with a recent dev build and most things are working as expected.

On a side note, I hadn't messed with in the graphical equalizer screen since the update that disables the touchpad on keylock so I was surprised there doesn't seem to be any way to exit that screen aside from shutting down now. I checked the bug tracker and someone else has already filed a report so I'm guessing it should get fixed when someone figures that out.
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Old 09-13-2013, 01:54 AM
Roboturner913 Roboturner913 is offline
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Just started over fresh with the new bootloader and the latest dev build. Too soon to say for sure but it seems a little better. Going to put it through its paces with some heavy bass albums and my typical settings and see what happens.
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Old 09-15-2013, 06:56 PM
zP0kE zP0kE is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by humersimpson View Post
...
My only non-touchpad gripe left (I have concluded that the only way around the touchpad issue is if someone comes out with an aftermarket, replacement front that uses the thumbwheel similar to the original Fuze) will be removed if they ever figure out a way to have RB keep the dynamic (i.e. "Now Playing") playlist until the user changes it which would allow me to just hit "play" to get the "Now Playing" playlist to start over again.
i've read that someone is working on a scrollwheel gesture on the fuze+ touchpad. http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/topic,43431.0.html

i just picked up a refurb fuze+ and i have to agree with all the negative reviews out there. even w/ RB installed, the touchpad is horrendous.
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  #6  
Old 09-15-2013, 09:29 PM
skip252 skip252 is offline
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How are you using the touchpad? If you're trying to use swipe gestures those won't work. I find if I think of it as a "tap"-pad instead of a touchpad like a touchscreen it's not bad at all. I find it to be decently responsive and accurate now that it's possible to adjust the sensitivity in Rockbox.

If a virtual scrollwheel was implemented I'm not sure I'd consider that an upgrade. The scroll wheel on the original Fuze sucked in so many ways for me I dumped most of the ones I had for little or nothing once the Clip+ port got USB support. The Fuze+ having a dedicated volume control might help. I'd have to check it out and see which I preferred if the virtual scroll wheel concept ever becomes part of the Rockbox code.
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Old 09-16-2013, 12:13 AM
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Marvin the Martian Marvin the Martian is offline
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Originally Posted by zP0kE View Post
i've read that someone is working on a scrollwheel gesture on the fuze+ touchpad. http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/topic,43431.0.html
That is a terrible idea.


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Originally Posted by zP0kE View Post
i just picked up a refurb fuze+ and i have to agree with all the negative reviews out there. even w/ RB installed, the touchpad is horrendous.
It's not bad now. Like skip252 said, don't swipe, tap.
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  #8  
Old 09-17-2013, 02:01 AM
Roboturner913 Roboturner913 is offline
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Newest Rockbox build did not help with my freezing/stuttering issue. I think I might just have gotten one with a crap battery or some other hardware issue. I'll just have to get used to having no EQ.

It's a shame because otherwise the Fuze+ fits my needs pretty well, at least until I have enough money to get something like a Fiio X3 or come across a nice used Gigabeat.
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  #9  
Old 09-19-2013, 06:26 PM
Roboturner913 Roboturner913 is offline
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I had the same freeze issue last night when plugging it in, which has never happened before.

I feel like Rockbox stability on the Fuze+ has gone backwards ever since they put in the 10-band EQ. I wish I were smart enough/had time enough to figure out these issues and fix them myself because any time you mention an issue on their forums you get this ridiculously hostile directive to install RB from scratch and file a bug report. As if I hadn't done that a couple dozen times already.

I realize Rockbox is just a bunch of people working on it in their free time and not getting paid but they act like that fact means they have license to be rude jackasses anytime someone dares ask a question.
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  #10  
Old 09-19-2013, 09:48 PM
skip252 skip252 is offline
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Originally Posted by Roboturner913 View Post
I had the same freeze issue last night when plugging it in, which has never happened before.

I feel like Rockbox stability on the Fuze+ has gone backwards ever since they put in the 10-band EQ. I wish I were smart enough/had time enough to figure out these issues and fix them myself because any time you mention an issue on their forums you get this ridiculously hostile directive to install RB from scratch and file a bug report. As if I hadn't done that a couple dozen times already.

I realize Rockbox is just a bunch of people working on it in their free time and not getting paid but they act like that fact means they have license to be rude jackasses anytime someone dares ask a question.
Mind letting us know what you deem ridiculously hostile or acting like a rude jackass about this response? http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/...6284.msg220085
Quote:
Please, please, please, please, bug reports go on flyspray.
If you suffer from random freeze/slowdown, report it here: http://www.rockbox.org/tracker/task/12886. Please do a complete a description and whenever you report a bug, make sure to reset all your settings before doing so. Thank you.

Announcement: some patches to disable touchpad on lock are on rail, Jean-Louis has made some tests and low power modes of the touchpad seem to gave us an extra 10% battery life. Wait and see
Links to your "couple of dozen" detailed bug reports that are being ignored would also be helpful. Just posting "Me too." on the rockbox forums doesn't give the developers anything to work with.

I've noticed that both pamaury and metaphys respond as their time allows when they and made aware that there is a problem. If you're not following the request to file a bug report with sufficient detail I can't see how anyone can look into a problem they don't know about.

As you said Rockbox is a project being work on by people with the skill and will to share the results of their work with others. I think making it easier for them to respond to your concerns is the least you can do if you decide to use those results.

As you mention stability decreasing since the addition of the 10 band equalizer it seems you may be attempting to use more bands than the Fuze+ can handle. Just because it's possible to use that many bands doesn't mean it's a good idea. That's why the presets were removed from the dev builds a while back. That makes it simpler for each person to set as many or few bands as they want to tailor the sound to their liking.

Activating more than 5 bands on any of my sansas bogs thing down. My V1 Clip and sansa E250 essentially lockup with more than 5 bands active. Fortunately I learned a long time back how to equalize all my headphones using a max of 4 bands. I've found that many bands of parametric equalization to be plenty for me. YMMV.
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  #11  
Old 09-20-2013, 12:04 AM
Roboturner913 Roboturner913 is offline
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Mind letting us know what you deem ridiculously hostile or acting like a rude jackass about this response? http://forums.rockbox.org/index.php/...6284.msg220085
Oh, I wasn't talking about myself necessarily, just one bad experience from a couple years ago combined with a few things I've seen from people that were obviously not trying to cause trouble, yet got shouted down anyway. I think if you scroll through that thread you quoted you will see the kind of thing I'm talking about.

I am not even close to upset, I just think it would be nice if they were a little more welcoming to questions and so on. At this point I would actually be very willing to pay for Rockbox as a consumer product if it meant they could become a little more user-friendly, but that's just my opinion.

Sorry didn't mean to ruffle any feathers, I just get wound up sometimes about dumb little things.
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  #12  
Old 09-20-2013, 04:51 AM
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skamp skamp is offline
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As you mention stability decreasing since the addition of the 10 band equalizer it seems you may be attempting to use more bands than the Fuze+ can handle.
I'm using 10 bands myself, no problem. The Fuze+ is quite a capable DAP.

Maybe if more users start reporting bugs, Rockbox people will look into it more -- if anything, because they'll have more data to work with. Reproducing bugs after resetting the Rockbox configuration might be problematic and time consuming, unfortunately.

Edit: note that the linked flyspray page concerns freezes that occur during playback, not when plugging the Fuze+ into a USB port.
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Old 09-20-2013, 08:45 AM
humersimpson humersimpson is offline
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Originally Posted by skip252 View Post
How are you using the touchpad? If you're trying to use swipe gestures those won't work. I find if I think of it as a "tap"-pad instead of a touchpad like a touchscreen it's not bad at all. I find it to be decently responsive and accurate now that it's possible to adjust the sensitivity in Rockbox.

If a virtual scrollwheel was implemented I'm not sure I'd consider that an upgrade. The scroll wheel on the original Fuze sucked in so many ways for me I dumped most of the ones I had for little or nothing once the Clip+ port got USB support. The Fuze+ having a dedicated volume control might help. I'd have to check it out and see which I preferred if the virtual scroll wheel concept ever becomes part of the Rockbox code.
I use mine as a tap pad, problem is that you have to tap the areas just right to get the response you want. The problem is that the 3x3 "grid" is smaller than it should be, probably not a RB problem, I would think this is more of a HW issue. Another problem is tapping the pad in the dark while I am trying to drive, again a HW issue since it has no backlight. Even though I hit the Play/Pause area often, because of the small grid, I still miss it when I am driving at night and want to skip a song or play/pause the current song and end up in a screen that I did not want to be.

While I am not sure how well a virtual scroll wheel would work or even if it would be an improvment (even a scroll wheel you have to push to select, on a virtual scroll wheel you'd have to tap to select, the same issues would exist), I can't see it being an improvement. Now, I HIGHLY disagree with your view of the original Fuze scroll wheel. It was not perfect, but it is still FAR better than the touchpad on even a RB'd Fuze+. If they came out with a Fuze Super Duper Zip + with the original Fuze type scroll wheel control, I'd be all over it. I did not find the scroll wheel to be a bad interface at all. Preferably, a new Fuze (not that I am counting on one ever coming out) would have the same kind of button controls like the Clip/Clip Zip, and have backlight (not sure if the Clip or CZ have backlights, will have to check my Son's Zip when I get home), but a scroll wheel control would be more than acceptable to me. Of course, ideally, a new Fuze would be a touch screen, device (preferably Android based).
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Old 09-20-2013, 08:52 AM
humersimpson humersimpson is offline
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Originally Posted by Marvin the Martian View Post
That is a terrible idea.




It's not bad now. Like skip252 said, don't swipe, tap.
I don't disagree trying to make the existing touchpad into a virtual scroll wheel probably is not a good idea and will not work well. That said, I don't think it is necessarily a "terrible idea", it may actually work quite well. I can't see how, but I would give it a shot if the person/people working on it released it.

I disagree completely that the touchpad is "not bad now" with a RB'd Fuze+. It is better, but it still is bad, overall. Not even the good coders working on RB can overcome poor hardware, though I do think they have done as much as they can with the HW that they are working with.
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Old 09-20-2013, 03:50 PM
skip252 skip252 is offline
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The linked page is used to refute the notion that the Rockbox devs act like jerks whenever bugs are reported. As has been said several times by the devs, that thread is for development, not bug reports.

I notice that the links to the dozens of bug reports that are claimed to have been filed haven't yet been posted. Linking to those would be a good way to show that this isn't some vague, hand waving bull.

I've been interested in the Fuze+ port from it's very beginning and have seen several posts that have been deleted because someone persisted in the belief that reporting a bug in the development thread was enough. Once that happened others starting adding their "me too" comments and no one started a bug report. When it got out of hand the reports got deleted and the request was made that bugs be reported in the tracker. You may think that isn't right but it's been how I've seen it handled in Rockbox since I've been using it. That's been since right after I joined here in 2007.

What happens when a bug is reported varies. Problems with USB connections seem to be complex and don't get resolved easily if at all. Other issues like the breaking of the recording and Graphic equalizer screens can sometimes be handled once they come to the attention of whoever broke them.

In either case coming here or just reporting them in the development thread isn't helpful. Creating a bug report like Julian67 did is much more likely to get it looked at by someone who might have the skills to do something about it.

This isn't to say that every Rockbox dev is a model of diplomacy. I've seen some comments and responses that I thought were over the top. I've also seen users that are highly offended when they are told their comments need something more than "it's not working" for anyone to look into what might be the problem.

When I've tried putting myself in the shoes of someone that has worked their butts off to create something unique and see the results belittled by someone that can't be arsed to RTFM or file a requested bug report. Once I look at it from that point of view I sometimes marvel at the level of restraint some of them demonstrate. It's been more than once I'm certain my response would have been to tell them to f**k off, uninstall and stick with the OF.
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Old 09-20-2013, 06:10 PM
Roboturner913 Roboturner913 is offline
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Originally Posted by skip252 View Post
The linked page is used to refute the notion that the Rockbox devs act like jerks whenever bugs are reported.
Yet, it also contains a number of rude responses. I suppose this is the case with the internet in general, but as a mod/administrator on various other forums I have always tried to seek a higher level. Maybe that comes off as heavy-handed, but I genuinely think it turns off a lot of first-time/new users.

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This isn't to say that every Rockbox dev is a model of diplomacy. I've seen some comments and responses that I thought were over the top.
See, you admit this, and then you diminish what I said as "vague, hand waving bull" - speaking of being rude. The "we don't get paid" excuse is old. I don't get paid to be polite in my everyday life, but I do it anyway because I am a decent human being.

I am not even trying to pick a fight. If you want to defend the Rockbox people that is fine. I'm sure they're your friends or whatever. I don't even feel like they need defending. All I am saying is that I would gladly pay/subscribe to Rockbox, or whatever, if that is what it took to make it a more user-friendly software/community.

I've been reading the Rockbox forums for several several years. I have not created any issues there, nor do I intend to create any issues here. But don't insult my intelligence and tell me how I am just dreaming stuff up, please.

Happy to take this to PM if you need to discuss it further.

Last edited by Roboturner913; 09-20-2013 at 06:49 PM.
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Old 09-21-2013, 04:58 AM
skip252 skip252 is offline
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I didn't say there were any rude responses from a developer in that thread. I've seen some snippy responses in other threads in the past but not there.

In rereading it don't see any I would consider out of line. Could you link to any you consider rude? It's a fairly long thread and I may have missed something.

There was saratoga's reponse to someone who was heading off in a non-development tangent, ..."Anyway, this is a development thread. It seems like you're not doing development, so you probably shouldn't be posting in this thread." that caused someone to respond they felt they were being mistreated. That's all I see that could even remotely considered rude.

I do see some posts that could be considered rude because the poster chose to ignore repeated requests by both the developers and members to post items that weren't development related elsewhere. I also noticed posters that seemed to fail to respond to polite request to file bug reports or provide meaningful feedback. I think the sequence that starts here would be a fair example.

That's seem to be you which is why I've expressed an interest in the bug reports you seem to say you've filed in post #30. If you haven't I don't think it's reasonable to expect anyone to be able to deal with an issue they can't replicate.

BTW, I find it more than a bit offensive you would say that I'm willing to excuse rude behavior because you think I'm defending a friend. If someone is behaving badly in public I feel that should be pointed out regardless of how well I might know them. To excuse rudeness because a person is a friend would have me share responsibility for their rudeness.

As it happens I don't know any of the Rockbox developers personally. I just dislike anyone spreading FUD that might discourage someone from giving something a shot that might work well for them.

I think saying the developers feel that they have license to respond as rude jackasses when someone attempts to report a problem should be considered FUD until you link to your bug reports and the responses you consider rude. That would allow anyone that sees this thread in the future to make an evaluation based on what was posted rather than either of our characterizations.
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  #18  
Old 09-21-2013, 05:16 AM
skip252 skip252 is offline
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Now, I HIGHLY disagree with your view of the original Fuze scroll wheel.
Guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that one. I can't tell you what's right for you, I can only say what didn't work for me.

Differences in use patterns, hand size, dexterity and vision can make what's just right for one person intolerable for the next. It's like the touchpad on the Fuze+. I don't think it works as well as the one on my Cowon i9 but it works well enough for me to be comfortable with it as a daily driver. Obviously that not the case for you so it would be silly for me to insist that it does. Different strokes for different folks.
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Old 10-16-2013, 02:23 AM
lisagorbin lisagorbin is offline
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Kinda off topic, but how can i update the Fuze+ music library with the OF? All the list of the deleted songs are still there, but of course, it would just run through it without playing them. All the new songs I've added doesn't show up. Booting with rockbox, I got no problem. But I want the Fuze+ OF to update its database too because I got something to test out. Im not using any memory card by the way and the firmware is already updated. Thanks.

And is the Fuze+ headphone port really not tight compared to the clips? I dont think its loose but it doesn't have the *click when inserting the headphone jack compared to other DAP's, say walkmans and the clips.

Last edited by lisagorbin; 10-16-2013 at 02:36 AM.
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Old 10-16-2013, 03:03 AM
skip252 skip252 is offline
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Booting to the OF should update that database http://download.rockbox.org/daily/ma...#x5-280003.1.3. If you call what it has a database. The last time I tried it took forever and got quite a bit of it wrong.

The headphone jack on my Fuze+ clicks in the same as any other without any unusual looseness. I've read reports of other sandisk players having very tight headphone jacks. Be sure the headphones are completely inserted with no metal showing. If they are fully in and there's still no click I'd think that means there's a possible hardware problem.

You could also try with another set of headphones. If those don't click into place I'd look at getting it replaced. It's only going to get looser with time.
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